D&D 3E/3.5 Finally got a 4E cleric to feel like 3.5

[phil500]

When 4e first came out i was dissapointed that i just couldnt get my cleric to be like the 3.5 one. I scoured the phb but couldnt come up with a build that could straddle the roles of leader, defender, melee striker to my satisfaction.


no race had +2 wis and +2 str, and using 3 or 4 feats to get plate and a heavy shield was a turn off. also, power attack (the cornerstone of my character) was just terrible and splashing a level didnt exist. playing was fun but i didnt really like my build and the group dissolved when people moved.

A friend just pulled me into LFR and after going over his new books i found a build i can really get excited about.

The Cleric|Paladin hybrid and shifter race solved most of my problems.

this is my build now, ive only throught thru level 2:

18 str
18 wis
12 cha
11 (int or dex)
11 (con
8 (int or dex)

at wills:
Holy strike or valiant strike. (both are 1[w]+str. holy adds wis damage. valiant is +1 attack for each enemy surrounding you)

Recovery strike- 1[w]+str and next to hit heals 5 (cha+wis mods) or astral seal.

encounter
Healing strike.
longtooth shifting- you have to be bloodied to use. +2 damage for encounter. +2 regen while bloodied)

Daily: beacon of hope


Feat 1: Paladin Armor proficiency (you get plate+heavy shield)
Feat 2: Blessed shifter (adds wis damage to divine melee attacks when you are in shift mode)

The blessed shifter is the closest I can come to power attack. once shifting, your holy strike deals really good damage for a level 2 character's at will, especially one with such a high AC. assuming a longsword:

1d8 (longsword) +4 (str) +4 (wis-holy strike bonus) +2 (shift) +4(blessed shifter).

so thats +8 vs. ac for 1d8+14 radiant damage. you could up damage by dropping the shield, or up the accuracy by using valiant strike.

So much like my 3.5 cleric this one straddles 3 roles very effectively but at significant risk to the party's well being if youre the only healer. your plan is to divine challenge until you are bloodied, shift, and kick some ass.

I think this guy can main heal just fine in a party of 3 or 4. a lot of that is due to how good recovery strike and astral seal are. also, feat 2 can easily be swapped for a much more responsible (but less fun) multiclass feat for another encounter heal.

Either way it leaves a lot of options. You can go as far as swapping out feat 1 for mordenkrad and be a squishy striker with an at will that averages 14 damage, 22 when bloodied. as long as 1 character can save a heal for you (lay on hands or a multiclass feat) you can go ahead and beat down.

Questions:
1) What at will setup is best?
2) should int or dex get the 8?
3) any suggestions for a level 2 utility? None of them excite me. well, one did, but then i found out about the errata

 

[Gruns]

A "3.5 cleric" with a Longsword?!?
Mind = blown

Later!
Gruns

 

[UngeheuerLich]

18 strength as a 3.5 cleric???, many melee attcks?, a shifter?

A better solution would be a race with +cha and +wis and focus on spells mainly...

 

[mneme]

18 strength as a 3.5 cleric???, many melee attcks?, a shifter?

...

You didn't play a lot of 3.5, did you UL? In 3.5, a properly built cleric could out-fighter a fighter -- and do it while buffing/healing the party and dropping the occasional blast of death.

 

[DracoSuave]

...

You didn't play a lot of 3.5, did you UL? In 3.5, a properly built cleric could out-fighter a fighter -- and do it while buffing/healing the party and dropping the occasional blast of death.

They didn't do it with 18 strength, they did it with spells that gave them 18 strength.

 

[jbear]

Bless Weapon doesn't excite you???? +1d6 radiant damage to all your attacks, +1 atk and crits 18-20 vs creatures with radiant vulnerability!!!! If that doesn't excite you, i don't know what will!

Holy Strike covers your melee attacks fairly well in so far as damage.
Astral Seal is more leader-like as the debuff to ALL defenses is good for your whole party and gives a heal... but no damage. I think it heals 7 off the top of my head (2+1 cha +healers lore: 4 WIS) which is basically a surge at low levels. Recovery Strike has the bonus of still getting to smack somthing and set up a heal. However, you may appreciate having a ranged power when you are immobilised, slowed, dazed or restrained. And handy if you can't get to your enemy safely for whatever reason to keep up your divine challenge.

Your Int is going to affect your Religion Checks. You DEX is going to affect your stealth... but dressed in Plate with a heavy shield, you're not exactly going to sneak up on anyone are you? You may feel it when you roll initiative however.

When you check out your at wills you need to take into account the different domains and how that adds buffs to your attacks. The drawback of Holy Strike if I remember correctly is that all its domains are ruled by evil gods.

 

[mkill]

Quote:

Blessed Shifter
[...]
Benefit: When you use your longtooth shifting or razorclaw shifting racial power, you gain a bonus equal to your Wisdom modifier to melee damage rolls with divine powers until the end of your next turn.

Not bad, but don't overestimate that feat. First of all, you need to get bloodied first. Second, the duration ist UEOYNT, which means you'll get the bonus to two attacks, or three if you drop an action point, maybe plus one opportunity attack. So that's +4 damage per encounter (+4 damage in 2 attacks with 50% hit chance). It's good, but it won't turn you into a striker. I would prefer something always-on like Weapon Focus first.

As for the topic of the thread, I don't see where a pure 4th edition Str cleric misses out to a 3rd edition cleric (Unless you expect Codzilla). You can deliver melee smackage, and you can heal without interfering with attacks. With the Warpriest PP, you can double as defender.

Cleric|Paladin is a somewhat questionable hybrid.

You're probably better off with a pure Paladin. Compared to the Paladin, you lose Lay on Hands but gain half Cleric healing, which amounts to more or less the same. You don't get to buff your allies that much, as you lose Righteous Brand, but it sounds like you rather want to go for damage anyway. You save a feat because you don't need to buy your armor and shield prof.

And yes, I suggest dropping the Cleric class altogether. The 4th edition cleric is a leader, and in 4th edition that means more than just spamming healing, it also means buffing your allies (instead of just yourself like in 3.5). If you're not planning to do that, don't go for the Cleric class.

 

[mkill]

A "3.5 cleric" with a Longsword?!?
Mind = blown

You should have seen my 3.5 Living Greyhawk Cleric.

Human, worships Kelanen, Bastard Sword prof + Combat Expertise + Improved Disarm

That guy was surprisingly effective.

 

[the-golem]

Well son of a gun. I actually had to look Kelanen up, as he isn't in the LGG. I thought I was pretty versed on Greyhawk, but you just one upped me, sir.

 

[phil500]

Quote:

Blessed Shifter
[...]
Benefit: When you use your longtooth shifting or razorclaw shifting racial power, you gain a bonus equal to your Wisdom modifier to melee damage rolls with divine powers until the end of your next turn..

arrghh i knew it felt too good to be true.

as for the 3.5 cler- i guess i based mine mostly on ddo. there wasnt nearly the same emphasis on economy of actions, so you could swing a lot between casting spells. and a high base str was still important.