Pathfinder 1E Finally Looked at the Pathfinder Rules...

[Grimstaff]

Currently running Swords & Wizardry, but I've taken a thorough look at PF.

If I had to choose between PF and 3.5, I'd take PF anyday, but PF still fails to address many of the issues I had with 3.5. I still prefer non-combat actions to be resolved through player skill not skill rolls, though I recognize plenty of gamers prefer, or at least are used to, making a roll to determine diplomacy, gathering info, etc. I also think PF still has a lot of fundamental problems after level 10 or so, though I recognize this is more likely a result of wanting PF to be as compatible with existing 3.5 product as possible. Designing monsters and npcs still looks clunky, but if you're already used to doing it with 3.5 it won't be a problem.

Though its ultimately not for me, I think its a fantastic game, and I think its going to be successful for a long time.

 

[Celtavian]

re

I played 4E for about 5 or 6 months. Got up to level 11 and went nuts. I'm more of a storyteller than a gamer. I like game systems that better lend themselves to a strong narrative. I found 4E was a very poor game system for storytelling. My primary gripe was the way the parties worked. A 4E game plays more like an MMORPG in terms of roles. You have the defender drawing aggro, a healer keeping people up, and everyone else dishing damage and applying negative modifiers. Not real interesting material to write about nor is it easy to explain within a narrative and make it interesting fight after fight.

And encounter powers are the devil for storytelling.

To sum it up, 4E was too repetitious for the type of storytelling I like to do. It's resource system encouraged repetition. And worst of all it encouraged repetition without need or sense with encounter powers.

Pathfinder is 3.5 with some improvements. The base classes are more powerful and interesting. They stand equal to Prcs. The combat maneuver system is substantially better as is the magical crafting system.

As a storyteller Pathfinder lends itself better to the way I like to tell stories due to its resource system. Its easier to work in power ramp ups based on daily resources useable multiple times when you feel the need than to work in encounter powers that are encouraged to be used every encounter regardless of need.

I like all the various combat options in Pathfinder. It gives more options to the players and makes combats more versatile and interesting than using an at will every round.

Recently the DM I was playing with had a drow priestess with a whip disarm the archer in the group. And it didn't require an encounter power or anything of the kind. It's combat options like that that lend itself to interesting storytelling.

I play Pathfinder because I feel it is a better system for telling stories. 4E's game structure was too opaque and rigid in my opinion and it hurt my ability to immerse myself in the story and imagine my character involved in the battles and interactions. Things like skill challenges seemed to be a replacement for roleplaying. Powers didn't feel like fighting styles compared to the feat system in 3.5. I'm glad I'm back in a system that allowed so many people (including myself) to tell so many great stories.

 

[Twowolves]

I have not played 4th ed, but I have been running a Pathfinder game since it came out (and playing in Pathfinder Society Organized Play), and I can add a little insight to some of the unintended consequences of some PF tweaks.

Namely at will cantrips/orisons. Briefly, casters have a low number (4, usually) of 0-level spells they can cast at will, one of which is of course Detect Magic. Now, they also let you identify the properties of a magic item via Detect Magic with a Spellcraft roll (DC = 15+CL of the item, Identify gives a +10 to this roll). The net effect of this is that you can find an item as loot, look at it, make a Spellcraft roll, and know what the item is all in the course of the adventuring day. No more throwing all the magic loot in a sack and sorting it out later.

This coupled with the clerical positive energy channeling providing for more healing and the minor spell-like attacks the wiz/sor get GREATLY extends the adventuring day at low levels.

 

[Garthanos]

I have not played 4th ed, but I have been running a Pathfinder game since it came out (and playing in Pathfinder Society Organized Play), and I can add a little insight to some of the unintended consequences of some PF tweaks.

Namely at will cantrips/orisons. Briefly, casters have a low number (4, usually) of 0-level spells they can cast at will, one of which is of course Detect Magic. Now, they also let you identify the properties of a magic item via Detect Magic with a Spellcraft roll (DC = 15+CL of the item, Identify gives a +10 to this roll). The net effect of this is that you can find an item as loot, look at it, make a Spellcraft roll, and know what the item is all in the course of the adventuring day. No more throwing all the magic loot in a sack and sorting it out later. .

Not quoting here just expounding on the gist of it.

4e made detect magic one of the trained in Arcana skill features. But Detect magic isnt always needed.
In 4e there are implied various grades of items all basically up to the DM to decide.

a) common straight forward item ... you can figure it out just by using it (handling it etc during a short rest). No arcana skill required.... swing it with passion and it burns what it hits. Note in 4e Arcana checks can be made even by the untrained... so the DM might allow raw intuition and familiarity with magic items to grant sufficient insight... or maybe a history/religion check to remember that childhood story about a similar item.

b) relatively common but not so straight forward (like maybe you have to learn to speak the password that is written on the blade in magic runes - arcana rolls by someone trained? basically the same as what you mentioned.

The knowledge checks may just give you clues that there is more than meets the eye here....

c) Something unusual, or rare or powerful or cursed ... (it may just be an item the DM decided is weird not particularly powerful his/her choice) so you may have to quest or find/purchase a specialty ritual to acquire more information about it.

Items that are not always straightforward can be awesome story fodder.