D&D 5E FIND STEED: Your Pony Has Opinions

[Storyteller Hero]

I've read people commenting on the mount companion from the 2nd level conjuration spell "Find Steed", describing it as if it were nothing but some robot mount that they control like a puppet. In my opinion, the Steed deserves far more consideration.

The steed is described as "intelligent, strong, and loyal", but that doesn't mean that the steed is brave, dominated, brain-dead, or suicidal.

The steed has a life. It has intelligence, with hopes and fears of its own. Loyalty is also not the same as absolute obedience.

The steed is essentially a fully-fledged NPC, a character in the story that can make its own decisions and affect the course of events with those decisions.

The steed exists somewhere when it isn't called, so it could actually find the PC instead of having to be "found" with the spell, and has memories and knowledge acquired from sources that the PC is unaware of.

Your pony has opinions, and perhaps you should listen, because the fate of the realms may depend on it.

Will the steeds in your campaigns be more than just a stat block? Are you willing to go the distance for pony-sama?

 

[MarkB]

Maybe a sufficiently smart steed could learn the Find Rider spell, and summon its paladin to it when it needs a hand.

 

[Oofta]

I try to give steeds (and familiars for that matter) a bit of personality but ultimately treat the steed as an extension of the caster. I get where you're coming from but the steed is not a real animal. If they die they just get sent back home, I suppose it's theoretically possible for a steed to permanently die I've just never seen it.

On a related note, we had a campaign my wife was DMing where a player kept getting their familiar killed off. We discussed it and the familiar started suffering from PTSD. Still followed commands but was visibly fearful and would hide when the PC wasn't looking, etc. Eventually the player got the hint.

 

[DND_Reborn]

While it is great to give steeds personality, the are spirits, not beasts. They won't die or anything like that if destroyed. You can dismiss them and summon them in new forms. Familiars are the same. They know that even if destroyed, they only cease to exist in physical form. They can come back in a new body. As such, there is no real risk for them when the player asks them to do something "self-destructive". They know they will always return when the spell is cast again.

Sadly, this is practically the same for PCs once revivify enters the game...

At any rate, this is different from AD&D, where paladin's warhorses and familiars were actual, physical animals, not just spirits taking on a physical form. Then players were much more cautious about putting these "pets" in harm's way. In 5E, there is no need to be cautious with the "lives" of steeds and familiars as they can't die.

 

[Dave Goff]

I have to agree with OP, the steed or familiar is a real being and has its own personality. While it may be a spirit, it's not just a formless bag of nothing created for the caster, it's an independent living being that exists on another plane and probably has existed for much longer than the caster themselves.

Heck, with an intelligence of 6, that makes them as smart as Grog from Critical Role.

Mechanically though, if it's trouble that gets in the way of fun- yeah, sure, it's a robot pony.

I prefer it to be more interesting than that though.

 

[Storyteller Hero]

While it is great to give steeds personality, the are spirits, not beasts. They won't die or anything like that if destroyed. You can dismiss them and summon them in new forms. Familiars are the same. They know that even if destroyed, they only cease to exist in physical form. They can come back in a new body. As such, there is no real risk for them when the player asks them to do something "self-destructive". They know they will always return when the spell is cast again.

Sadly, this is practically the same for PCs once revivify enters the game...

At any rate, this is different from AD&D, where paladin's warhorses and familiars were actual, physical animals, not just spirits taking on a physical form. Then players were much more cautious about putting these "pets" in harm's way. In 5E, there is no need to be cautious with the "lives" of steeds and familiars as they can't die.

I think that it calls up the question of whether or not the steed can feel pain or discomfort either from injury or a violent forced return. In addition, if the PC is alright with treating the steed as a disposable creature, then the steed might choose to break its bond with the PC, thereby ending the spell permanently and preventing the summoning of the same steed. There's no particular rule covering such an occurrence but it would probably make sense from a roleplaying perspective if the bond requires the maintenance of trust and friendship.

If the players at my table decided to treat their PCs as disposable, I might start imposing insanity effects on the PCs for engaging in nihilistic proclivities - to maintain immersion of course...

 

[DND_Reborn]

I think that it calls up the question of whether or not the steed can feel pain or discomfort either from injury or a violent forced return. In addition, if the PC is alright with treating the steed as a disposable creature, then the steed might choose to break its bond with the PC, thereby ending the spell permanently and preventing the summoning of the same steed. There's no particular rule covering such an occurrence but it would probably make sense from a roleplaying perspective if the bond requires the maintenance of trust and friendship.

If the players at my table decided to treat their PCs as disposable, I might start imposing insanity effects on the PCs for engaging in nihilistic proclivities - to maintain immersion of course...

Well, of course that is your prerogative. However, as the spell forces the spirit to be loyal to the caster, it should do what it can despite any pain or discomfort it might feel either from direct damage or the forced ending of the spell in service to the summoner. The caster should understand the steed's role is a disposable creature, because its physical body is temporary, and the spirit can be summoned again later on, fully restored. Thus, only the form is disposable, but the bond/spirit can still be greatly valued--even more so due to the caster's understanding of the possible sacrifice/pain given in service. The spirit would understand this as well. It's (possible) pain in service to the caster likely prevents harm to the caster and is a badge of honor so to say.

Now, if the player throws their steed to the wolves (literally even LOL) repeatedly and shows no appreciation or remorse, they might not go insane, but should drift towards neutrality or even evil in alignment. Such acts, without feeling for the fate (albeit temporary) of the steed is hardly the act of a good person IMO. Of course, even then, they know their steed will return unharmed.

That is my take, for what it's worth.

 

[LordEntrails]

The steed is essentially a fully-fledged NPC, a character in the story that can make its own decisions and affect the course of events with those decisions.

So a DMPC huh? Yea, no thanks.

The story is about the PCs, not the PC's companions/familiars/hirelings/etc. Sure such entities are part of the story, just like all NPCs are, but how much of the story should be left up to the Players to decide, not the DM.

Will the steeds in your campaigns be more than just a stat block? Are you willing to go the distance for pony-sama?

No.

 

[Blue]

In game, the steed can be it's own personality.

At the player level, the steed is the effect of due to what's on their character sheet, so while we can endeavor to bring it to life, we won't attempt to use it to subvert the player's wishes.

On the player's sheet = not the DM's.

 

[Storyteller Hero]

In game, the steed can be it's own personality.

At the player level, the steed is the effect of due to what's on their character sheet, so while we can endeavor to bring it to life, we won't attempt to use it to subvert the player's wishes.

On the player's sheet = not the DM's.

As with all summoned monsters, the DM is expected to provide the stats for the steed and allows/disallows choices depending on the circumstances of the campaign. The DM should however have a discussion with the player about how they wish to go about it since the steed has a potentially major impact on the roleplaying (for example - where the steed comes from can matter a lot since it is a fey/fiend/celestial).

As the spell itself grants the steed decision-making power of its own as an intelligent creature and nowhere does the spell's description say that the steed obeys the PC's commands like a zombie (there's a difference between a faithful servant and a dominated slave), there is going to be a common sense limit to how much the player can push the steed unless the campaign itself is the type that rolls with extreme in-game decisions (ex. a Monty Python style campaign).

If it's a campaign that is roleplaying-focused with a level of immersion that everyone has agreed upon and the player is mature enough to not constantly throw their steed into pits of carrion crawlers, problems where the DM has to curb the brakes on what the steed is willing to do will probably not come up.