D&D 4E Find the Anime/Video games in 4e

[Mercule]

I think what you really mean is "I don't care for any of the examples of anime that I've seen and don't care to acquire a taste for it". It's a much more honest statement to make and would bring fewer responses that you hate.

I agree it's more accurate. On the other hand, it tends to invite responses like "Then you need to watch more," which isn't particularly helpful. Nor would I say it's dishonest.

Also, having opened myself to new anime experiences many times, only to find that the latest "but this anime is completely different from that other drek" flick actually ends up being similar to that other drek in exactly the ways I didn't like, you'll have to pardon me for being a bit generalized. Intellectually, I understand that "anime" is just a word for animation and could probably be applied to the 1930s Mickey Mouse cartoons as well as Toy Story (according to one definition I ran across earlier today). In practice, I assume that people understand that the only reason for a native English speaker to use that term is to refer to a niche within the larger application.

If you genuinely didn't understand what was meant, then I apologize and would gladly learn the proper term for the types of anime that I dislike. For referrence, the creators of Dragonball Z must burn in the pits of Hell, Pokemon is tolerable in the same way Sesame Street is tolerable, and Vampire Hunter D would be fine if his freaking hand didn't talk to him -- but still is not the feel I'd want for D&D.

On the other hand, if a person who did understand what I meant would be perfectly justified in politely pointing out the misuse of the term and supplying a better term. I have yet to be supplied with a term I can be any more sure is correct than "anime", though some people have not been particularly annoying in correcting. 95%+ of the time, though, whenever someone does point out such a misuse of the term, it is accompanied by an attitude that is dismissive and derisive ("You don't even know what the term means. How could you possibly know what is good? You should expect to get attacked.").

Anime fans have no high ground, whatsoever, when talking about the bad form of those who dislike anime.

 

[bonethug0108]

Um... this thread specifically asked what elements of 4E reminded people of anime in a negative way. Your above statement implies that it would be bad to make a statement in this thread that was actually on topic.



That was the opinion stated -- and placed within context of this thread.

Once again, the entire point of this thread was to find similarities between D&D and anime. And the question was asked, pretty much specifically, of those who did not like those similar elements.

How would you have answered?

Aye, I guess he did ask what it was like, too. First he said where is the link, then he said what is like anime/video games.

So not very clear wording there.

I guess it is just all the anime/mmo hate lately that really has no basis.

Still, when anime and video games are based on other things, it is pretty unfair to peg them as the "cause of the problem".

So when someone says such and such came from video games when it in fact game from d&d, I think to myself, "So you always hated d&d?" It's like they pretend it hasn't been in d&d all along.

The anime side isn't my forte. I watch some and enjoy it, but I don't think of it as all one thing. It would be like saying all oil paintings are the same thing. They use the same methods and tools, but they can produce very different results. So when people say anime that is too vague a term to really be saying anything. It is an art style and nothing more. Not all animes have flashy names and big swords and high packed action(though alot do).

So I guess this is really two different issues. The video game bashing is bad because they are based on d&d and the anime bashing is bad because it is always used incorrectly.

Basically I want to see what the real influences of anime(likely slim to none) and video games are on d&d and not all of the false conclusions.

 

[Rechan]

I agree it's more accurate. On the other hand, it tends to invite responses like "Then you need to watch more," which isn't particularly helpful. Nor would I say it's dishonest.

I really hate that. I do.

It's like, "I don't like turnup greens." "Well have you TRIED them?" "Yes." "Well you haven't tried these turnup greens." "But they're going to taste like turnup greens, and I don't like that taste." "Have you tried it recently?" "Sigh."

 

[bonethug0108]

I really hate that. I do.

It's like, "I don't like turnup greens." "Well have you TRIED them?" "Yes." "Well you haven't tried these turnup greens." "But they're going to taste like turnup greens, and I don't like that taste." "Have you tried it recently?" "Sigh."

In anime's case, it would be more like, "Have you tried this vegatable?" Animes are alot more varied than just different ways to cook turnup greens.

Though I don't like any vegatable except potatoes and tomato sauce(if you consider tomatoes a vegatable).

It's like, "I don't like vegatables." "Well have you TRIED any?" "Yes." "Well you haven't tried these." "But they're going to taste like vegatables, and I don't like that taste."

 

[Tewligan]

My copy of the 3.5 XPH says it was published in April 2004.

WoW didn't come out until November, 2004.

Now, I know that Everquest and perhaps Dark Age of Camelot may have existed before these points, but I'm not sure if either of those games had the "Re-tool" thingie.

Ultima Online was out well before XPH.

EDIT: XP, XPH - to-MAY-to, to-MAH-to...

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

In anime's case, it would be more like, "Have you tried this vegatable?" Animes are alot more varied than just different ways to cook turnup greens.

All a matter of opinion. I'm the last to go on about anime I'd rather just forget it exists. But overall my experience has been that a preponderance of those who like Anime do not react well to any criticism of the material. Not that everyone does but here on the net the attitude of so many is so disparaging that it rubs off on others via associated interests.

That said I don't see a great deal of Anime/Videogame influences in the new addition. Even though I don't like the new fluff I've seen my personal opinion is that any Anime influences are relatively small. Some of the new maneuver names have a flavor to them that is at least similar in nature to many pieces of Shonen anime. Even if the resemblance is not large or direct it does create an atmosphere that points in the direction. Beyond that I don't see any great resemblances to Anime. Now the Class Roles, those are a direct port from MMOs. The MMOs originally stole the idea from D&D's classes, but the limits of computer games made changes necessary, limitations on more versatile concepts to fit the code. So the idea may have been swiped from D&D originally but the implementation was different and in porting it back they've created something different than the original concept.

 

[bonethug0108]

Actually the roles are guidelines and can be very blurred and blended and the classes aren't confined to them in any way. That is in direct opposition to what mmo roles are. The only thing similar are the names and the basic premise.

 

[jdrakeh]

Now, I know that Everquest and perhaps Dark Age of Camelot may have existed before these points, but I'm not sure if either of those games had the "Re-tool" thingie.

Ultima Online had it in 1998.

 

[Rechan]

Now the Class Roles, those are a direct port from MMOs. The MMOs originally stole the idea from D&D's classes, but the limits of computer games made changes necessary, limitations on more versatile concepts to fit the code. So the idea may have been swiped from D&D originally but the implementation was different and in porting it back they've created something different than the original concept.

This is false.

D&D has always had roles. The Fighter/Cleric/Wizard/Rogue has been key to party compesition. If a party lacks that, they're abnormal and it hurts.

3e Fighters, Barbs and Paladins fought. Rogues killed single targets. Wizards blew things up, along with some sundry effects. Clerics healed and buffed. Anything else they did wasn't what they were good at. 4e doesn't look any different than that. And the only time you could play a class that didn't fit the 4 Class Paradime was when it was a 5th character.

In 3e, things break down when you don't have someone playing these classes. Sure, the Druid can pull the Cleric's weight with healing, but it it's much harder to do, and everyone needs that healing. The game assumes you have a skill monkey, the game assumes you have a frontline meatshield, the game assumes you have someone who can handle ability damage with spells.

4e is just spelling that out. "In a fight, this is the role the class fills." And it's making sure that, within each role, each class can do that role's job equally, so there's none of this "Well, we needed a rogue, but Bill decided to play a freakin' monk."

The roles are just what a class does well, and what several of its powers are geared towards doing. For instance, several of the Cleric's powers are geared towards buffing and aiding other members of the party. This is the Leader Role. However, the Cleric has fear effects, and can call down Flame Strikes and other direct damage; that might be Controllerish, or Striker-ish. In one of the playtests, a Warlock threw down an acid bog that covered a wide area and hung around, which sounds more like a Controller than a Striker.

 

[jdrakeh]

Ultima Online was out well before XPH.

EDIT: XP, XPH - to-MAY-to, to-MAH-to...

Beat me to it!