Finding Traps Stinks - Or Am I Doing It Wrong?

[TarionzCousin]

I believe that there are two methods of finding traps in 4E:

1. A passive Perception check; or
2. A perception roll.

This doesn't seem like much fun to me.



Either the DM sets the DC low enough that the PC can always find the trap, or sets it high enough that the PC has at best a 50% chance to find it--because passive Perception equals rolling a "10" on a Perception check.

Is that right?

That doesn't seem like much fun to me. One of my long-term players always plays rogues because he loves searching for traps, disabling them, and doing other sneaky "rogue" things. The 4E approach definitely turns him off and now that I examine it, I see why.

What if Rogues/Thieves got some bonus to finding traps? Maybe they could:

A. Expend a Healing Surge for a +2 on the Perception check; or
B. Take feats to increase their chance to see traps; or
C. Expend an Encounter or Daily Power for a +3 or +5; or
D. Something else.



Thoughts? Comments? Snark?

 

[Kzach]

I agree. I posted about this exact same subject saying the exact same things about a year ago. I never got any satisfactory replies or solutions. Hopefully this time you'll fare better.

 

[Almacov]

I'm pretty sure there's a mechanic for finding traps by spending a healing surge...


But yes, I've always found traps kindof hard to run without making them more logic puzzles than game elements.

 

[OnlineDM]

I'll admit that I haven't given this much thought, but here's one idea.

You could rule that actually finding a trap requires an active Perception check (much like disabling a trap requires training in Thievery - just as a house rule). If a character's passive Perception is high, you could give that character an inkling that "something's up," prompting an active Perception check. If that active check isn't high enough, then they fail to find the trap.

This requires separating player knowledge ("The DM just told me to make an active Perception check... that must mean there's a trap here!") from character knowledge ("I looked around, and I didn't see any traps.") If you can do that, you can have some traps that are pretty easy to find (your Rogue will find it on a roll of anything better than a 4, let's say) or hard to find (the Rogue needs a 15 to find it) or anything in between.

 

[TarionzCousin]

I agree. I posted about this exact same subject saying the exact same things about a year ago. I never got any satisfactory replies or solutions. Hopefully this time you'll fare better.

Maybe I should have titled this thread "Essentials Secrets" instead.

 

[Rex Blunder]

I totally agree. Passive checks like Stealth are good because an active (rolled) number is compared against a passive (static) number. Finding traps, though, is a comparison of one static number against another. Ridiculous: not a lot of variability there. It's as if combat were a static attack bonus compared against a static defense.

 

[LostSoul]

The problem is more basic - when does the DM call for a skill check, and why?

Depending on your answer, you will arrive at different solutions. The one I have for my game (when there's a conflict, roll dice) works for me.

For example: In my game, only when a PC takes an action to look for traps (ie. there is a conflict between the PC and the environment) do we need to roll.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I totally agree. Passive checks like Stealth are good because an active (rolled) number is compared against a passive (static) number. Finding traps, though, is a comparison of one static number against another. Ridiculous: not a lot of variability there. It's as if combat were a static attack bonus compared against a static defense.

Think of the DC as the trap's Stealth check, only for convenience it was rolled when the encounter was designed. From the PCs perspective there's nothing static about it.

There are all kinds of ways to deal with traps and all kinds of traps which you can handle in different ways. Not every trap HAS to be concealed. When they are the PCs first of all have their passive Perception (which is working ALL the time). If the trap has a DC higher than the best passive Perception then the rogue STILL has whatever chance of finding it his active Perception gives him, so the chance from the character's perspective is never LESS than 50/50. Only the DM knows the DCs for the various traps, thus the player isn't experiencing this 'less than 50/50 always' phenomenon.

You can always make traps trickier to find by making them require searching at close range. The trap could also be out of sight until the characters get close, etc. A skill challenge could be involved in finding it. There are plenty of different possibilities. Also notice that 4e traps have multiple elements in most cases (control panels, pressure plates, other components) which may be found and fiddled with independently.

The 4e design in this area is intended to support really interesting and fun traps, it isn't really designed to do much for you if you're scattering random pit traps around your dungeon. Stand-alone traps really should be more elaborate than a single Perception check and a couple Thievery checks.

 

[DEFCON 1]

And in actuality, the 4E method is no really different than 1E or 2E. The only difference is that back then the Thief (and only the Thief) would roll percentile dice to try and find a trap, and percentile dice to disarm it. So it's the same as today (two die rolls), except you no longer have to be specifically a single class to attempt it.

 

[im_robertb]

Not sure if it's what you're looking for, but here's an idea:

Passive checks are always opposed by an active check.

So in the example of a trap, it doesn't have a Perception DC of 19, it has a +9 Stealth modifier. When you read a premade adventure or trap, that's pretty much what it means, only for simplicity and to save die rolling, they assumed the trap/creature/boxed text rolled a 10. And that is boring; I don't know of the 1st level party that could miss a DC 12 bit of boxed text.

Instead, take all of those traps/creatures/boxed texts, and roll stealth for them. Either do it during the game, or before, and make a note of it. Then compare to the PC's passive Perception/Insight. Now your DC 12 'he has a scar on his face' might be missed - but it's still not likely, which is fine at DC 12. But your Stealth +9 trap vs a Perception +10 PC is no longer automatically found, as it would be if we assume both roll a 10.