Fire & Forget Magic System: Should they replace it?

Re: Re: Re: Fire & Forget Magic System: Should they replace it?

MeepoTheMighty said:


Hehe..it's funny when Europeans try to use American colloquialisms :)

Hehe... It's funny when Americans think they're the only ones in North America. :D
 
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Your post ignores several responses

As several people have stated "fire and forget" is no longer the mechanic. You prepare the majority of the spell ahead of time and store the remainder for when you have to cast it. As such, you are not "forgetting" the spell at all you just don't have the proper means to cast it again (you can repeat the words and the gestures but they're only part of the equation).

As a matter of fact the core rules even give wizards another option - blank spell slots. If you want to, you do not have to prepare all of your spells ahead of time but it takes MUCH longer to cast the spell (15 minutes I believe).

Besides, I don't think doing it another way would be better - just different. For example if you want to simulate "strain" have the spell do temporary con damage (recoverable at 1/hr) - or even 1.5xCon damage. That will simulate fatigue nicely (and will have the Dragonlance effect that high level spells can potentially kill the caster from strain alone), though somehow I don't see too many people flocking to this idea.

EarthsShadow said:
Maybe discarded was the wrong word to use now that I think about it. I use the term "make sense" because, whether or not you don't see preparation as memorization or not, I do and both do the same thing. In the morning you prepare, or meomorize, a spell formula, you cast it, you forget it. Gone. To me, logically, that just does not make sense. Frankly, if you know the spell, you know it, and if you don't, you don't.

You read books, and only official Dragonlance books and FR books simulate magic that way, and even reading those books, when a spell is cast most of the time the caster feels the magic pulsing through their bodies, sometimes getting tired over the course of the day the more they cast spells. In other words, in their own books, the spellcaster feels the effects of manipulating magical energy, casting spells, however you term the usage, and they get tired. If they cast a more powerful spell, they get more tired and feel drained. Dragonlance is big on this, especially in the Chronicle's books.

Other non-DnD books of fantasy using magic simulate magic as something people tap into, using the energy to form spells that tax the body. The more powerful the spell, the harder the spell is on the body because the power of the spell is taxing to the caster.

The DnD system is okay and designed the way it for balance issues, and I understand that. But it could be so much better. I also agree that most people, if its not official in the core rules, will not play with it because it doesn't come from the official company itself. That is the falacy of DnD itself.
 

In other words, in their own books, the spellcaster feels the effects of manipulating magical energy, casting spells, however you term the usage, and they get tired. If they cast a more powerful spell, they get more tired and feel drained. Dragonlance is big on this, especially in the Chronicle's books.

In fairness, this is normaly Raistlin doing the casting... Raistlin's constitution is so frail, at least in the begining, that thinking hard probably tires him out.
 

I don't think "they" should replace the fire and forget system. For one thing, "they" already have -- there are great alternatives that can be used as is, or with minor modification, in Wizards of the Coast's Wheel of Time Roleplaying Game, Star Wars Roleplaying Game, and Call of Cthulhu Roleplaying Game. There's also a very good alternative magic system done by Sovereign Stone.

That said, I don't like very much about D&D magic -- wizard, sorcerer, cleric druid, psion -- I prefer another system to any of these. Sovereign Stone is good, as is a system that works very similar to the Star Wars system, which is what I'm putting together for the next time I run fantasy for my group.
 

Joshua Dyal said:
I don't think "they" should replace the fire and forget system. For one thing, "they" already have -- there are great alternatives that can be used as is, or with minor modification, in Wizards of the Coast's Wheel of Time Roleplaying Game, Star Wars Roleplaying Game, and Call of Cthulhu Roleplaying Game. There's also a very good alternative magic system done by Sovereign Stone.

My vote: When 4E (or 3.5E, whatever) comes out, cram all of those options into the PHB, or at least the DMG as an option.

Prediction: Good reviews for having done so.
 

Besides, I don't think doing it another way would be better - just different. For example if you want to simulate "strain" have the spell do temporary con damage (recoverable at 1/hr) - or even 1.5xCon damage. That will simulate fatigue nicely (and will have the Dragonlance effect that high level spells can potentially kill the caster from strain alone), though somehow I don't see too many people flocking to this idea.

Actualy, that's very similar to how the Sov. Stone magic system functions... and it's probably the most popular non-core magic system for D20.
 

EarthsShadow said:
Other non-DnD books of fantasy using magic simulate magic as something people tap into, using the energy to form spells that tax the body. The more powerful the spell, the harder the spell is on the body because the power of the spell is taxing to the caster.
Actually, I think it is the fantasy writing of Jack Vance that provides much of the inspiration for the "fire & forget" system that has so long been a part of D&D. I can't comment on his work -- perhaps someone more familiar with Vance could chime in?

However, I can think of another fantasy series with a "fire and forget" magic system similar to that which you describe above: Joel Rosenberger's Guardians of the Flame. In his books, magical energy seems to be almost a sentient thing, in which the spells themselves want to be cast, the words of power that channel them exerting a constant pressure on the mind of the spellcaster while he retains them. The process of memorization draws magical energy into the mind of the spellcaster, and therefore the more experience he has, the more capacity to store and control this energy. I find this to be a very evocative "explanation" of "fire and forget."
 
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Tsyr said:


Actualy, that's very similar to how the Sov. Stone magic system functions... and it's probably the most popular non-core magic system for D20.

Hmm, haven't checked out Sovereign Stone maybe I should.

My main point, though, was that there are other options (as tons of posters have stated) and the original poster isn't aknowledging them.
 

Mort said:
My main point, though, was that there are other options (as tons of posters have stated) and the original poster isn't aknowledging them.

I don't think he isn't acknowledging them, so much as it's not relevent to this particular discussion... Sure, there are tons of homebrew rules and OGL alternatives, but by his use of the phrase "Should they replace it?", I gather he is talking about official, core rules, WotC-supported alternatives, of which there are none (Well, Sorcerers, but that's only a baby step towards change... Psionics is not core)
 

There is no fire and forget magic in D&D3, so why don't we just drop it. Seriously, has nobody read Spell Selection and Preparation on p.154 PHB? It says right there how wizards cast spells, which is totally not "fire and forget"... wizards don't actually even memorize spells, which would mean that there's nothing to "forget".

This whole thread seems to be based on a total fallacy.
 

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