Fireball and line of site/effect

[zlorf]

Hi,

My understanding of the Fireball spell is that if you can see* the target or point of impact then the bead will impact at that precise point, unless there is a solid barrier to stop it.
I then imagine that the bead, just like a magic missle will unerringly avoid any soft cover, ie
people fighting, trees, bushes etc.

The situation came up lastnight were the spell caster has line of effect to a room but was
shooting through a blade barrier spell. At the time we agreed to give it a 20% chance of detornating as it went through the blade barrier. It made it through, no probs.

Im also wondering if the amount of softcover has any bearing on the fireball bead?, ie
Shooting it down a 10ft corridor with 10 ogres standing behind each other and trying to
detornate it at the door at the end of the corridor which the caster can see. See diagram
D.OOOOOOOOOO...C



The example they use about sending bead in through a arrow slit, talks about ranged touch attacks, but how is this worked out, i could be 10ft away from the arrow slit or 400ft. Is the
ranged touch the same? Can this be used for softcover? Do i have to see beyond the arrow slit or as part of the spell i guess 10ft.


Im happy to go with the "I see that point, therefore i hit" and probably 95% of the time that
fits into how we interpret the rules, just wondering if other have a different take on the rules?

btw whats constitutes a material body?

*note: After finishing this post, i realized you actually dont need to see the point of detonation, i can aim the bead into darkness and it should go off at the designated distance, unless it hits a wall before hand(solid barrier)


Cheers
Z






Fireball Spell
You point your finger and determine the range (distance and height) at which the fireball is to burst. A glowing, pea-sized bead streaks from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the fireball at that point. (An early impact results in an early detonation.) If you attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you must “hit” the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely.

 

[frankthedm]

I'd recommend making use of this to find an arrow slit's AC.

You can instead target a specific grid intersection. Treat this as a ranged attack against AC 5.

Archers behind arrow slits have improved cover that gives them a +8 bonus to Armor Class, a +4 bonus on Reflex saves, and the benefits of the improved evasion class feature.

So an arrowslit has an AC of 13. A square beyond a blade barrier has an AC of 9.

RAW, spells do not suffer range increment penaties. Not even long range spells like fireball. The range increment of the heavy crossbow or the caster's medium range sounds fair in my book if you want one.

Also the Rules are hazy on how much cover it takes to interfere with a Fireball.

On one side, it can be assumed a creature could avoid the bead going through their space if you were not aiming it at them. If you were aiming it at them, they would get a reflex save to avoid the bead.

But what if a creature wants to interfere with the fireball bead going through it's space?

 

[Darklone]

But what if a creature wants to interfere with the fireball bead going through it's space?

I once had a wizard move a shield with telekinesis in front of a hostile wizard to catch his fireball...

 

[TheGogmagog]

I'd agree AC5 plus "blade barrier provides cover (+4 bonus to AC, +2 bonus on Reflex saves) against attacks made through it." In this case however, the fireball is detonating inside, and those outside get the +2 reflex save?

Usually you can choose a path that ignores cover. Like 6' tall creatures in a 10' high room (or higher) in which case the path could start at the tip of your finger over your head, pass over the heads of allies and opponents, and detonate near the cieling.

I'm wondering about franks image however, would the +4 AC accumulate and how far you missed would deterime how far into the ranks you made it? Or can the caster simply fire the bead down the bottom right side of the squares, because he doesn't need to hit the Boss, just the corner of his square (or actually center of the 3rd from last). We usually assume the shot goes between opponents or over heads, but in Frank the DM's I would guess you chose your target, then see how many 4's past 5 your to hit roll is.

 

[Infiniti2000]

But what if a creature wants to interfere with the fireball bead going through it's space?

Some things just need to be disallowed.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Frank, you have the best examples.

 

[frankthedm]

I'm wondering about franks image however, would the +4 AC accumulate and how far you missed would deterime how far into the ranks you made it? Or can the caster simply fire the bead down the bottom right side of the squares, because he doesn't need to hit the Boss, just the corner of his square (or actually center of the 3rd from last).

The example was suppost to show the boss oni [ogre magi] choosing to intercept the fireball, rather than let it get to the door. The ogre sprites were picked for thier "letting someone past" stance. The issue was "Should the boss have the option to say the buck {fireball bead] stops here?"

We usually assume the shot goes between opponents or over heads, but in Frank the DM's I would guess you chose your target, then see how many 4's past 5 your to hit roll is.

Cover only applies once even on normal ranged attacks.

 

[mvincent]

what if a creature wants to interfere with the fireball bead going through it's space?

It seems reasonable with a readied action.

 

[Doug Sundseth]

But what if a creature wants to interfere with the fireball bead going through it's space?

I'd say that depends on his batting average, with the appropriate modification if it's a spitfire ball.

 

[frankthedm]

It seems reasonable with a readied action.

And yet a wall of ice can be struck down by adjacent foes with a reflex save...

Any creature adjacent to the wall when it is created may attempt a Reflex save to disrupt the wall as it is being formed. A successful save indicates that the spell automatically fails.

Granted I do feel that liability of wall of ice is utter crap. Willingly putting one's limbs into a wall of ice should flash freeze the limb IMHO.