D&D 1E Fireball throughout the ages

[Hussar]

No, I don't see a difference between 1 and 3. You cure the wounds, you cause the wounds, you drop a lightning bolt, it's exactly the same duration of magic - Instant. The changed state (burns from the lightning, closing of wounds etc) doesn't and can't change through the application of Dispel Magic. You instantly turn to stone. There are spells that might reverse that, but, none of them are actually undoing a magical effect.

Or, to put it another way, why is lightning bolt a near zero duration effect, but cause light wounds a permanent one?

Once you switch everything to instantaneous, then there is no differentiation needed.

 

[Nikosandros]

I think I see Lanefan's POV. There is a difference between lightning bolt, in which the effect of the spell is the lightning itself and the damage is just a consequence of being struck by it and cure light wounds where the healing is the effect. Perhaps, 1e could have used a word such as "persistent" to indicate spells that lasted but could be dispelled.

 

[Helldritch]

You realize that you are saying the same thing but with different words don't you? More or less. And it would not affect any games, rules or way of playing the game. I do appreciate a good debate but this is going nowhere.

 

[Lanefan]

No, I don't see a difference between 1 and 3. You cure the wounds, you cause the wounds, you drop a lightning bolt, it's exactly the same duration of magic - Instant. The changed state (burns from the lightning, closing of wounds etc) doesn't and can't change through the application of Dispel Magic. You instantly turn to stone. There are spells that might reverse that, but, none of them are actually undoing a magical effect.

Or, to put it another way, why is lightning bolt a near zero duration effect, but cause light wounds a permanent one?

Once you switch everything to instantaneous, then there is no differentiation needed.

Yes there is.

When the person is turned to stone how long does the statue stay a statue before turning back to a person? (answer = forever)

When the person is cured up how long is it before the cure wears off and the hit points thus gained go away? (answer = forever)

When the lightning bolt shoots across the room how long does the arc last for? (answer = close to no time at all)

You're only looking at the duration of actual dispellable magic. I'm also looking at the duration of what that magic does, as in how long does the effect last.

In the case of lightning bolt it's the same length of time. In the case of flesh to stone, not so much.

 

[Hussar]

How long does it take to turn the target to stone? Almost no time.
How long does it take to heal the wounds? Almost no time.
How long does it take to fire the lighning bolt? Almost no time.

There is no difference.

It's not like you can undo the lightning bolt. Sure, you can heal the damage, but, that doesn't make you suddenly not be hit by that lightning bolt that might have fried your magic shield. The effects of a lightning bolt may not be permanent in the sense that HP damage can be healed, but, then again, that makes it about as permanent as Cure Light Wounds in that you only heal until your next bit of damage. Which might be very little time at all.

How long does the effect of a lightning bolt last? Forever in in the case of destroyed equipment. The durations of curing or damaging spells are effectively forever. The effects cannot be undone. That's not true in the case of permanent (to use the 3e definition) effects like Continual Light/Flame where the effect can be undone with anti-magic (dispel magic, etc) effects.

Again, can I fix my shield with a dispel magic if it's destroyed by a lightning bolt or fireball?

 

[Legatus Legionis]

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[mach1.9pants]

The other cool thing we nerdily figured out with AD&D fireballs is that if you centre it on the ground at someones feet, for example, the radius is 25 feet or yards (outdoors) rather than 20' to make 33000 cubic feet