Fireballs into melee?

[Imperialus]

Ok I'm all for useing the battlemats and what not but what do you do about players who consistantly set off fireballs, flamestrikes, ect into HTH combats while avoiding hitting their teammates by carefully counting squares and setting off their spells so they just skirt the combatants? I can find nothing in the rules that says they can't do this but still, it seems really cheep and not really keeping with the nature of the spell. It's like calling in an airstrike precice enough to kill the enemy in your trenches all the while avoiding your own soldiers. I'm thinking anything from a 5 foot scatter on any area effect spell or simply saying that the fireball has to detonate against something solid, it can't be mid air... of course then they'd just have it hit the ground...

 

[gtJormungand]

It's not a terrible bad thing for a wizard/sorceror to do. Restricting them from counting squares for their spells is the same as restricting fighters/monks/barbarians from counting squares to get in to position to attack. There have been threads here in the past about this, though I don't remember how long ago.

 

[wraith8]

Id have them roll a certain check seeing if they aimed right. I mean if they do this all the time it isnt fair but once or twice could be allowed.

But like for a fireball say make them have a concentration check of 33 (30 + spell level). If they fail make them roll a 1d6.
1- They are off by 20 feet in a direction chosen by the dm
2- They are off by 15 feet in a direction chosen by the dm
3- They are off by 10 feet in a direction chosen by the dm
4- They are off by 5 feet in a direction chosen by the dm
5- They hit themselves with their own fireball
6- They stop casting the spell when they realize they aimed wrong, and can use the spell again.

 

[Simplicity]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...
If you play any real-time combat CRPG D&D games, it doesn't take you very long to be able to place your fireballs such that they hit only the enemies... even if those enemies are in melee with your friends. In real life, it would be even easier to judge these distances.

Any wizard with fireball would probably be able to place it pretty precisely.

Now if someone manages to get in the way of the fireball 'pellet' that shoots to the destination... That's another issue. That can lead to some fried adventurers.

 

[Simplicity]

5- They hit themselves with their own fireball

Wow... You're cruel. Remind me never to play a wizard
while you're DMing...

How the heck would this happen? Was the wizard scratching his head when he finished casting the spell?

 

[wraith8]

He wasnt concentrating on aiming he was concentrating on a fireball, when it shoots from his hand he didnt say where it would hit the target so it blows him up instead. Its like using the a spell to call lightning and forgetting to choose a target, you might just hit yourself....


And yes im a mean dm.

 

[Arc]

It's a matter of DM preference, really. There's nothing stopping a player from counting squares and precision aiming his spell, except the DM.

 

[jgsugden]

A good system to deal with this issue (although a little time consuming at first):

1.) Character selects a square (instead of an intersection) as the target of his spell.

2.) Character rolls a spellcraft check with a DC of 15 + spell level.

3.) If the character makes the check, he may select the intersection that will be used to target the spell. That intersection must be along the edge of the selected square.

4.) If the character fails the check by 5 or less, the DM uses a d4 to randomly determine which corner of the selected square will be the actual target.

5.) If the character fails the check by more than 5, the DM rolls a d8 to change the target square (a 1 on the d8 moves the target square up one, a 2 moves it up and to the right, a 3 moves it to the right, ... and an 8 moves it up and to the left. Then, a d4 is used to determine which corner of the square is used as the target.

6.) Once a target intersection is determined, check to see if there is any cover at all between the caster and the target. If there is, have the PC roll a ranged touch attack versus AC 13 (10 -1 size + 4 cover) to avoid hitting the cover. If there is no cover or they make the attack roll, the spell goes off in the correct location.

This works very well with fireballs, flamestrikes, ice storms, etc ... though it can take an extra minute at first (or a few extra seconds once you're familiar with it).

 

[Gwydion The Quick]

The wizards in D&D games are usually have an INT score of 16 minimum. I think a person with 16-18-20 INT score can easily calculate the distance and the burst area of his/her spell in 6 seconds.

 

[WattsHumphrey]

I don't see much of an issue with counting squares, personally. In open space is the only place doing so is particularly useful, as once there are obstacles in the way (walls, etc) then it becomes much more difficult to target spells with that kind of accuracy.

I run into issues when they start counting 3d squares. "I target the fireball 20 feet above the human enemy's head. This way, it hits his square, but not the squares of those surrounding him." That's... a bit abusive.