Fireballs into melee?

[wraith8]

I still like my idea where the wizard can hit himself.. This really applys when a wizards trying to cast ata a target 5 feet away from him but counts squares so it wont hit him. Then he misses in any of the ways and can hit himself anyhow. ITs kind of funny really, this mage in my game tried doing that to a harmed dragon. He barely avoided getting killed due to a well timed heal spell but the dragon was in his face due to the fact he had to get close to cast harm. He cast the spell, missed the concentration check by 1 and rolled a 2 on the check. I moved his fireball so it hit him and the dragon, killing them both. It was quite funny.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I still like my idea where the wizard can hit himself.. This really applys when a wizards trying to cast ata a target 5 feet away from him but counts squares so it wont hit him. Then he misses in any of the ways and can hit himself anyhow. ITs kind of funny really, this mage in my game tried doing that to a harmed dragon. He barely avoided getting killed due to a well timed heal spell but the dragon was in his face due to the fact he had to get close to cast harm. He cast the spell, missed the concentration check by 1 and rolled a 2 on the check. I moved his fireball so it hit him and the dragon, killing them both. It was quite funny.

Sounds like a really, really dumb rule.

Ever played warhammer 40k (or any of it's cousins)? Most of them have at least one weapon whose rules are "choose a direction to fire in, and pick a distance without measuring - place the template at that point".

The general consensus on such weapons is that they're way too good - because after just a couple of games, anyone using them is dead-on-target every single time, and typically the weapon in question is stronger than other weapons to make up for the supposed disadvantage of the targeting mechanism.

I've yet to see someone hit the firing unit with such a weapon.

 

[Dinkeldog]

House rules on fireball...

 

[The Souljourner]

I play Icewind Dale II, and after just a few practice fireballs, I got really good at hitting enemies who were in melee with my allies, and not hitting my allies. It's really not that difficult to judge by eye for anyone who has time to practice (and since fireball doesn't have a costly material component, the resident wizard would probably be *required* to practice by his allies... I know I'd want to make sure he had it down pat before I let him start throwing those things around near me)

-The Souljourner

 

[clark411]

The fireball booming at one's feet seems a bit much...

"I want to hit only those guys so I point my finger at the floor between my feet," eh??


Personally, if I were to house rule this (and I probably wouldn't..) ability to place things exactly, I'd ask for a chosen spot, figure out how much action (ie how many combatants and obstacles) were directly between the caster and the target location, and assign a touch attack vs that exact point in space. Then the fireball would either boom at its location, near it if a miss (probably 5ft closer or further from the caster), or at any point where it is interrupted by the cover provided the target point by trees or your friendly / hostile combatants.

 

[D+1]

Ok I'm all for useing the battlemats and what not but what do you do about players who consistantly set off fireballs, flamestrikes, ect into HTH combats while avoiding hitting their teammates by carefully counting squares and setting off their spells so they just skirt the combatants? I can find nothing in the rules that says they can't do this but still, it seems really cheep and not really keeping with the nature of the spell. It's like calling in an airstrike precice enough to kill the enemy in your trenches all the while avoiding your own soldiers. I'm thinking anything from a 5 foot scatter on any area effect spell or simply saying that the fireball has to detonate against something solid, it can't be mid air... of course then they'd just have it hit the ground...

You can't find anything in the rules against it because there IS nothing in the rules about the players of spellcasters being DISallowed from measuring range and area of effect for ANY spell. I really don't know why people feel that because fireball CAN blow up in your face that there must be a maximum amount of DM perversion to see to it that it happens as often as possible.
The nature of the spell is NOT to have the caster wound or kill himself or allies with it. In fact, it IS like calling in an airstrike - which similiarly does not have the aim of endangering friendlies rather than enemies. Any ranged, area-effect spell is like artillery. Just because fireball, in the right circumstances, can backfire on you a bit easier, doesn't mean that it's intended to do so as a matter of course.

 

[rhammer2]

I don't have any trouble with them counting squares, but my house rule is that if an area effect spell will effect everyone in melee with anyone that is definitely caught in the effect.

So you can fireball the troll, but unless the troll is making use of his reach all your party members meleeing with the troll are caught as well.

Ok I'm all for useing the battlemats and what not but what do you do about players who consistantly set off fireballs, flamestrikes, ect into HTH combats while avoiding hitting their teammates by carefully counting squares and setting off their spells so they just skirt the combatants? I can find nothing in the rules that says they can't do this but still, it seems really cheep and not really keeping with the nature of the spell. It's like calling in an airstrike precice enough to kill the enemy in your trenches all the while avoiding your own soldiers. I'm thinking anything from a 5 foot scatter on any area effect spell or simply saying that the fireball has to detonate against something solid, it can't be mid air... of course then they'd just have it hit the ground...

 

[Petrosian]

the fighter can freely count squares before deciding his action to see if he can reach the target and still swing (is it 35' to the troll or closer to 40?) and so on so i do not see a reason to penalize the mage by making him not be allowed to count squares and use them in the same way.

The rogue can freely count squares to figure out if he needs to move to get to 30' and get his extra dice of sneak shots, so i do not see a reason to penalize the mage by making him not be allowed to count squares and use them in the same way.

if you want to do it for one, do it for all.

 

[frankthedm]

I run into issues when they start counting 3d squares. "I target the fireball 20 feet above the human enemy's head. This way, it hits his square, but not the squares of those surrounding him." That's... a bit abusive.

If the guys right on the edge of a fireball i would give the target +2 to save with no dame if save is made since the target is so close to the edge.

 

[Bauglir]

Id have them roll a certain check seeing if they aimed right. I mean if they do this all the time it isnt fair but once or twice could be allowed.

But like for a fireball say make them have a concentration check of 33 (30 + spell level). If they fail make them roll a 1d6.
1- They are off by 20 feet in a direction chosen by the dm
2- They are off by 15 feet in a direction chosen by the dm
3- They are off by 10 feet in a direction chosen by the dm
4- They are off by 5 feet in a direction chosen by the dm
5- They hit themselves with their own fireball
6- They stop casting the spell when they realize they aimed wrong, and can use the spell again.

Let me clarify here.. If a spellcaster in your game casts a fireball they need to roll a concentration check so difficult they will likely need a 20 or risk hitting themself or missing wildly?

Why would anyone even learn the spell if that was the case, much less cast it?