First 3rd Party Product available already...

[Darrin Drader]

Frankly, with as many former designers who did their own work in outside publishing houses, the idea that a third party product is "inferior" because it's not official D&D is pretty foreign to me.

Yet the attitude persists, the 3PP market is marginalized and sales suffer across the board because of the vocal perception of the few that non-WotC = BAD! Non-WotC simply means non-WotC.

 

[w_earle_wheeler]

Not at all. I'm actually hoping that they're doing this under special arrangement with WotC and that it won't be pulled for fear of being in violation of the GSL.

From what I've seen, the GG product is a rules-free Gazetteer.

 

[JVisgaitis]

Here's the section.

Ah, thanks Gareth. Totally missed that and I can't check it at work...

 

[Scribble]

Book of Nine Swords possibly owes more to Mike's work on the Book of Iron Might than Iron Heroes (the maneuvers and such, as well as "evocative battle locations".) Also, in Iron heroes, there's a hit point recovery mechanic that looks like a precursor to Healing Surges.

Frankly, with as many former designers who did their own work in outside publishing houses, the idea that a third party product is "inferior" because it's not official D&D is pretty foreign to me.

I kind of wonder if those products weren't "secret" playtests of some of the concepts going into 4e... A dual use product... A cool idea for 3e, but a way to test the concept for the future editon without leaking the future edition... Shrug.

Yet the attitude persists, the 3PP market is marginalized and sales suffer across the board because of the vocal perception of the few that non-WotC = BAD! Non-WotC simply means non-WotC.

Yeah I've never understood that attitude myself... I mean I can understand someone saying they only want to use WoTC books in a campaign, but to imply a book is bad "just" because it wasn't released by WoTC?

Oh well... if someone wants to miss out on good ideas that's their problem, not mine.

 

[Harley Stroh]

From what I've seen, the GG product is a rules-free Gazetteer.

This is correct. When it came down to the wire, we didn't have the rules in time to get a solid adventure to print in time for Free RPG Day.

Instead, the Gaz. sets the stage for 3 of the first 9 4E DCCs.

//H

 

[LeaderDesslok]

The GSL was released at the end of the business day Tuesday, June 17. Even if they faxed the Statement of Acceptance that night, it wouldn't be recevied until June 18. That means no third-party product can possibly come out any sooner than July 1.

No third-party GSL products can come out sooner than July 1. Not "no third-party products". There is an important distinction.

I figured the GSL part was implied given the state of things this week, but I bow to your superior specificity.

 

[jgerman]

Not at all. I'm actually hoping that they're doing this under special arrangement with WotC and that it won't be pulled for fear of being in violation of the GSL.

I'm hoping most 3rd party publishers broker a separate deal. Even if it meant paying royalties, I'd rather see better content than what is allowed under the GSL. Of course that's personal preference...

 

[jgerman]

I figured the GSL part was implied given the state of things this week, but I bow to your superior specificity.

Unfortunately too many people don't get that. Particularly over on Gleemax you see people going apeshit as if the GSL is the only way to get 4e stuff published.

 

[Mercule]

Frankly, with as many former designers who did their own work in outside publishing houses, the idea that a third party product is "inferior" because it's not official D&D is pretty foreign to me.

Agreed.

When I say I found WotC more consistent it's because I a) had a good idea of the style and b) could usually check them out before buying.

Early in the 3.0 life cycle, I had a FLGS that had a lot of the 3rd party books available, and B&N carried many of them, too. The majority of the early 3p stuff I found was crap. Not all, but quite a bit that had to be reworked, IMO.

Later in the game, I didn't have the chance to browse in the store before buying, and so went with my original impressions. I bought a few of 3p books on recommendations and was often bitten by different definitions of what was "quality" or by simple taste.

I was starting to eye the Dungeon Crawl Classics stuff -- B&N started carrying them -- but I'm really disenchanted by 3.5, at the moment.

With 4e, I'll be looking at some of the 3rd party publishers again, especially Goodman and Necromancer. If 4e floats my boat, that'll be great. If not, I expect to shift to nWoD or Savage Worlds for a while. Maybe 3e and the 3p support will look better after a break.

 

[JVisgaitis]

Glad to hear. Back when Roc Games started up during the early d20 days, the talk of Violet Dawn is what drew me to their site...

Roc Games? Holy crap. Is that a blast from the past. That was the first website I think I ever designed. Roc was around long before d20. We actually started working on our own inhouse system and I left that company with one of my friends to form Inner Circle.