First Look at the Complete Divine

[Saeviomagy]

I personally found the Warshaper from CW apallingly powerful, though I didn't play it. (Yet. I have a Barbarian/Fighter/Bearwarrior build gearing up to it, assuming the DM will agree...)

It's not appalingly powerful by a long shot. For wizards who qualify, they give up spellcasting progression, and already have a paltry attack bonus and bad hitpoints for a front line fighter, although they have the best forms to choose, and the potential to retain the use of magical items.

For anyone else, they lose their magical items and have them replaced with a +4 to strength and con, immunity to crits (nice, but not amazing), fast healing 2 (which has almost zero impact DURING a fight) and the ability to keep changing during a single use of their shapeshifting ability. Druids lose their spell and special ability progression. Typically it's an exchange of flexibility for power.

 

[Thotas]

Absolutely, westwind. Just pointing out the potential for DM abuse, too. My scenario is kind of whacko in that it's unlikely that our villian has been able to cast that many of the spell without some of them being activated unless she's very, very patient and laying very, very low. And it uses up almost a third of the experience she could have used to go to 10th level. No PC would ever try to pull that off, even if they could, but NPCs could make it Standard Operating Proceedure.

 

[Psiblade]

After reading through most of this thread, I am still happy with the CD. There are a couple of problem children (Radiant Servant of Pelor/Miasma).

Other issues have been over done. Example was someone with two Divine Metamagic Persistent spells. That requires fourteen turning attempts. You only get three + chr. bonus/penalty. Charisma is also not normally a place where you want to put points. Extra turning only adds 4 per feat.

I like a lot of the domains, spells, and prestige classes (Seeker PrC, Improved Smiting, etc.). A lot of changes from 3.0 to 3.5 were well done (Celerity Domain, Mysticism domain, etc.). I plan to allow a good chunk of CD into the game I run. You should always look at a book for yourself.

-Psiblade

 

[Trainz]

Other issues have been over done. Example was someone with two Divine Metamagic Persistent spells. That requires fourteen turning attempts. You only get three + chr. bonus/penalty. Charisma is also not normally a place where you want to put points. Extra turning only adds 4 per feat.

It gets really weird when your 25th level Sorceror with close to 40 Charisma take one level of cleric.

Or just your Paladin.

You know...

 

[Pants]

It gets really weird when your 25th level Sorceror with close to 40 Charisma take one level of cleric.

Or just your Paladin.

You know...

Personally, if you have a character like that, then you deserve to have those things persistent.
ESPECIALLY, when you have a Charisma score near equal to Gods'.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

The MT needs to keep up with single classed spellcasters.

IME it more than keeps up as is.

The mystic theurge has breadth, of course. I can still easily imagine a mystic theurge taking the feat in question (I believe it's Practiced Spellcaster, yes?) because they're concerned about spell DCs and spell resistance.

 

[Urbanmech]

My one gripe with CD is the fact that beyond the spells and wild feats Druids get 1 questionable PrC (the blighter doesn't count). The Seeker of the Misty Isle isn't really that nature focused. Why does WotC have such a problem coming up with suitable druid PrC's? The ones featured in CW (Natures Warrior, War Shaper) were way better than anything in CD. I wonder why the Animal Lord didn't make it back in.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

After reading through most of this thread, I am still happy with the CD. There are a couple of problem children (Radiant Servant of Pelor/Miasma).

Other issues have been over done. Example was someone with two Divine Metamagic Persistent spells. That requires fourteen turning attempts. You only get three + chr. bonus/penalty. Charisma is also not normally a place where you want to put points. Extra turning only adds 4 per feat.



-Psiblade

Well 1 as pointed out a sorcerer could take a prestige class that gives turning attempts and this could get really nasty. And even without that a cleric easily could have a base 14 chr since chr isn't a dump stat for them, with a good item and 1 extra turning feat they'd have 13 turning attempts. not enough for 2 persistents but what if they took divine metamagic quicken(2 of them then), or divine metamagic empower(4 of them). Without the book I don't know if there possible, but that could be quite potent. And quite frankly the sorcerer with divine empower and a heap of turning attempts would be flat out sick.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

The mystic theurge has breadth, of course. I can still easily imagine a mystic theurge taking the feat in question (I believe it's Practiced Spellcaster, yes?) because they're concerned about spell DCs and spell resistance.

Yeah well I guess its campaign style dependent and all that but in my games the mystic theurge breadth is so great it way more than overcomes there power loss. This one feat would remove close to 1/2 there power loss. They'd still be down 1 spell level, and 1 class would be out spell power, but there combat spells come primarily from the wizard class so that's where it would go and they'd be flat out sick in comparison to the single class mage in my games. Heck they're already better(which is why in future campaigns they wont exist) so I feel no great need ot beat a dead horse and have them get even better.

 

[Psiblade]

Yes, a sorcerer can take sacred ex. at 17th level (requires 10 knowledge planes which is not a class skill)(costs 20 skill points knowledge planes plus 14 skill points knowledge religion)(total skill points 34). That is a lot of ranks to give up concentration for.

A 17th level sorc should have a max chr of 28 (18 base + 6 cloak +4 bump)which is still only 12 attempts. That is a long way to go to get a divine metamagic persistent spell. I would rather use 4 divine metamagic (empower). Regarding quicken, remember any metamagic for spontaneous spells is a full round action.

I do not play epic levels, but a charisma of 40!!! The DC's from your spells would be at least +25 anyway. Our high level games are around 15th level, so I will admit I do not know what breaks for epic.

-Psiblade