First Look at the Complete Divine

[Saeviomagy]

Just about every splatbook generates this criticism, and in many ways it's a fair one. However, I imagine it would be almost impossible for writers to create a product whose power-level fits perfectly in any campaign. In the above-mentioned City of the Spider Queen adventure, I played an over-powered Cleric with some insane tricks I would never allow in a campaign I was running, but it worked since the power of our opposition (and really, their numbers and our environment) evened out whatever advantages we had. There are things in CD I won't allow or might have to adjust before I allow them, but it's still a useful resource (imho) since it gives me a lot of stuff I will use and ideas to develop more material on my own.

Complete warrior didn't have any real problems, aside from the rather obscure hulking hurler number crunch. The worst PrC's in it are not really that bad - they tend to give up something real and tangible for their benefits. Beyond that, they were giving power ups to what are the classes that need them the most. I would have felt quite comfortable adding the book as a whole to a campaign, and simply having to review characters as they came through. The same is true of the miniatures handbook.

Complete divine seems to have quite a number of problems, ones which are violating the basic tenets of the game. In other areas it's presenting benefits for no cost. Also it's adding considerable power to a class which simply doesn't need more power. Finally, most of the problems seem to stem more from laziness than from a genuine difficulty in balancing mechanics.

 

[Al'Kelhar]

I hadn't noticed this before, but it says "check toee" so I guess if you're going to use Tharisdun, you need to pick up that adventure. Not crazy about the policy of incomplete material presented in a product, but it's not a major deal to me in this case.

I believe that reference means "Check Temple of Elemental Evil". It's the author's shorthand of saying "I need to look this up later". The Complete Divine is full of typographical errors. I've found at least five, just by skim-reading. I know this is debated on these boards from time to time, but I expect more from professional publishers like WotC. If I can draft my own 20+ page adventure in MS Word and not have more than two or three typos in it, I think WotC can get their act together better. My advice for those of you who haven't bought it yet is to wait for the reprint of Complete Divine. Of course, if no-one buys it, then it won't be re-printed, but them's the breaks.

BTW Tharizdun's favoured weapon is the (curved) dagger.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

 

[Olive]

The Complete Divine is full of typographical errors.

Sigh. Ah well. I'm not going to wait, because I suspect there never will be a reprint, but the 'check toee' thing is pretty blatant.

 

[Thotas]

For DMs who feel that the various overpowered spells and feats listed earlier on this thread threaten their campaign balance, let me point out the spell "Stalwart Pact". The balancing factor in this otherwise scary spell is the XP component cost ... that NPCs don't have to worry about. And duration is permanent until triggered. So Madame Evilla, 9th level priestess of Loviatar, has 25 ogre minions, and once they hit half hit point status, they get 45 extra hit points, damage resistance, and +4 on all their saves for the next 9 rounds.

 

[Yair]

Complete warrior didn't have any real problems, aside from the rather obscure hulking hurler number crunch. The worst PrC's in it are not really that bad - they tend to give up something real and tangible for their benefits. Beyond that, they were giving power ups to what are the classes that need them the most. I would have felt quite comfortable adding the book as a whole to a campaign, and simply having to review characters as they came through. The same is true of the miniatures handbook.

Complete divine seems to have quite a number of problems, ones which are violating the basic tenets of the game. In other areas it's presenting benefits for no cost. Also it's adding considerable power to a class which simply doesn't need more power. Finally, most of the problems seem to stem more from laziness than from a genuine difficulty in balancing mechanics.

I personally found the Warshaper from CW apallingly powerful, though I didn't play it. (Yet. I have a Barbarian/Fighter/Bearwarrior build gearing up to it, assuming the DM will agree...)

I haven't read CD, but based on this thread, it has its problems.

 

[Westwind]

I'm pretty sure that if something like that was done with stalwart pact it would be appropriate to tack on an ad-hoc xp award for the ogres.

 

[Thanee]

About that feat, which let's you stack levels when multiclassing to get a higher caster level (max +4)... isn't that just perfect for the Mystic Theurge?

It would allow that character to keep up somewhat better with single class spellcasters.

Would a MT need to take it twice for full benefit?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Marshall]

About that feat, which let's you stack levels when multiclassing to get a higher caster level (max +4)... isn't that just perfect for the Mystic Theurge?

Yes

Would a MT need to take it twice for full benefit?

Yes

 

[Shard O'Glase]

About that feat, which let's you stack levels when multiclassing to get a higher caster level (max +4)... isn't that just perfect for the Mystic Theurge?

It would allow that character to keep up somewhat better with single class spellcasters.

Would a MT need to take it twice for full benefit?

Bye
Thanee

The MT needs to keep up with single classed spellcasters.

IME it more than keeps up as is.

 

[Ripper-nk]

Please anybody can give me a real answer!
I read all 12 pages and only find 3 contraditory answers.

Spikes and brambles, what's changes in thats spells? post here please.