First Look at the Complete Divine

[Olive]

Well, got it today.

I'm a bit disappointed in the section about gods, that could have been both longer and much cooler. The relics are cool. Some nice feats. I thought there were more interesting PrCs in CW, and the sheer number of reprints is a bit lame. Nice art! Some cool spells too. The stuff about where the dead go etc. has given me some good ideas, and might force me to figure out my campaigns ideas. Those are the first impressions at least.

Over all, I think that CW will see more use, but there's definitely stuff in this book I'm use as well.

It does need some errata though. There's the p121 'check toee' thing, and spell dragon breath needsa material component. What else ahve people noticed? I was thinking we should do a mass email to customer service requesting errata for the problems...

 

[Marshall]

Yeah well I guess its campaign style dependent and all that but in my games the mystic theurge breadth is so great it way more than overcomes there power loss.

You're the first person I've seen that has actually played the class claim that it was comparable to a straight caster, let alone overpowered.

This one feat would remove close to 1/2 there power loss. They'd still be down 1 spell level, and 1 class would be out spell power, but there combat spells come primarily from the wizard class so that's where it would go and they'd be flat out sick in comparison to the single class mage in my games. Heck they're already better(which is why in future campaigns they wont exist) so I feel no great need ot beat a dead horse and have them get even better.

Maybe you have a player thats better suited to spellcasters playing the MT?
Tho I agree that PS + MT = Very Nice, you've just spent a feat, which increased the cost of the MT, which should allow the straight caster to gain a different advantage...

 

[Westwind]

Just to clarify about spikes and brambles.

They are both in the book. My previous post was wrong--I somehow missed them skimming through.

They do not appear to be changed (again, don't have DotF with me but I used the spells before). 1 hour/level duration, +10 damage cap, double threat range for spikes, +2 attack bonus for spikes, +1 for brambles.

Does this mean the return of the darkwood mace-wielding Aasimar cleric of Lathander/Pelor with access to the Glory and Sun domains and bead of karma/Persistant Spell buffs? Probably not. Buff spells aren't nearly as good with Extend Spell and, frankly, he's just not that fun.

 

[Vocenoctum]

You're the first person I've seen that has actually played the class claim that it was comparable to a straight caster, let alone overpowered.

Side note: My problem with Mystic Theurge & Eldritch Knight, is that both are compared to a normal double classed caster. If you look at either as simply a wizard PrC, I think they both offer a lot of benefit for little cost. 2-3 spell levels for a full BAB and more hp or a whole lot of divine spells.

As for Complete Divine: The PrC's are pulled from all kinds of sources, so it'd be great if you didn't already have the material in question. The 3.5 updates aren't the best.
Still on a cursory glance, the book appears pretty decent. I just get tired of Cleric PrC's that allow full spell progression and full turning progression, plus other powers.

 

[Silveras]

Well, got it today.

I'm a bit disappointed in the section about gods, that could have been both longer and much cooler. The relics are cool. Some nice feats. I thought there were more interesting PrCs in CW, and the sheer number of reprints is a bit lame. Nice art! Some cool spells too. The stuff about where the dead go etc. has given me some good ideas, and might force me to figure out my campaigns ideas. Those are the first impressions at least.

Over all, I think that CW will see more use, but there's definitely stuff in this book I'm use as well.

It does need some errata though. There's the p121 'check toee' thing, and spell dragon breath needsa material component. What else ahve people noticed? I was thinking we should do a mass email to customer service requesting errata for the problems...

Heh.. I am still awaiting my copy ::grumble:: but, on a related note ...

I have been putting the MM monsters and spells from various books into Access dbs. As part of the process, I have been e-mailing each errata item to Wizards' customer service as I find them.

Out of 106 spells in the Book of Exalted Deeds ... 15 e-mails (so far) (15 spells to go)
Complete Warrior: 8 spells, 2 e-mails
Miniatures Handbook: 65 spells, 3 e-mails
Monster Manual: 493 monsters (so far), 20 e-mails (mostly about skills).

 

[Staffan]

Monster Manual: 493 monsters (so far), 20 e-mails (mostly about skills).

Have you checked synergies? I remember a discussion near when 3e first came out when someone broke down the skills of a mind flayer, and thought it had 2 SP too many... until they noticed that Bluff gave a +2 bonus to Intimidate, which was included. It's an easy thing to miss.

 

[Olive]

I have been putting the MM monsters and spells from various books into Access dbs. As part of the process, I have been e-mailing each errata item to Wizards' customer service as I find them.

Do you have copiues of the errata? Or the emails, or the databases? And would you like to send them to me?

 

[Silveras]

Have you checked synergies? I remember a discussion near when 3e first came out when someone broke down the skills of a mind flayer, and thought it had 2 SP too many... until they noticed that Bluff gave a +2 bonus to Intimidate, which was included. It's an easy thing to miss.

Yes, I accounted for synergies. I double-check before each e-mail, because I hate looking like an idiot for something so obvious. There are probably a few that I missed because I wanted to be sure. Things like aquatic creatures that have a +8 racial Swim bonus and a Strength of 16 (+3), wear no armor, and have a Swim listing of +3 I sent in. If I could not identify what I thought was wrong (a factor missed, or one counted twice), I held off.

As a side comment, reverse-engineering the monster entries is quite education in terms of understanding how some rules fit together. And, in general, the system works - almost every monster follows almost every rule accurately. There are surprisingly few errors considering how much material there is and how many numbers inter-relate.

On Topic:
My copy of Complete Divine arrived today.

Regarding the Practiced Spellcaster feat.
This feat seems fine to me. It boosts your spellcaster level for spell effects only, not access, by up to +4 (capped at your character level/HD).

It was acknowledged during the Q&A period of "what's changing in 3.5" before its release that the designers know multi-classed spellcasters get shafted. Other character functions (saves, BAB, hp) combine across classes, but not spellcasting. While a spellcaster should certainly lose some spellcasting potency by multi-classing, the way everything ties to the same much-reduced Caster level was a problem.

That was the rationale for the creation of Prestige Classes that let multi-classed casters "keep up": Arcane Trickster, Eldritch Knight, Mystic Theurge. Monte Cook, in the book of Hallowed Might, took a similar approach in the Hallowed Mage Prestige Class.

Unearthed Arcana has the variant "Magic Effect Rating", which introduces a stat (MER) that all classes contribute to, to some degree. This stat replaces Caster Level for range, duration, creatures effected, penetrating spell resistance, and dispel checks.

The feat is one possible choice in addressing this problem; the PrCs are another, and the variant is a third. All are optional, and no one has to use any of them, really.

 

[Silveras]

Do you have copiues of the errata? Or the emails, or the databases? And would you like to send them to me?

I am reluctant to share the dbs because they have much content that is not Open. The spells db started as all Open, but I have started adding the spells from WotC books. The monsters db is part of my toolkit for laptop DMing, and is very much a work-in-progress.

 

[Thanee]

About Practiced Spellcaster. Is this feat bound to one spellcasting class, or does it work for all?

Concrete example: If a Cleric/Wizard/Mystic Theurge picks up Practiced Spellcaster, does he have to decide, whether his cleric level stacks on top of his wizard level or vice versa or do they both mutually stack with each other to determine caster level?

Bye
Thanee