OneDnD First playtest thread! One D&D Character Origins.

[cbwjm]

The change does make some options flatly superior to others, though.

And I don't have a problem with the floating ASIs. I am an optimizer. I just don't envision anyone grabbing +2 to Intelligence and +1 to Charisma for their cleric for "the role-playing" when they have every reason pick Wisdom and Strength instead for charop. Is the primary incentive for shuffling around ASIs not to have a halfling wizard with 17 Intelligence instead of 15 at first level when the latter is in no way deficient?

I don't have a problem with the floating ASIs anymore, part of me would have liked a middle ground where a race gained +2 to a single score and then had a couple of +1s to distribute how they wanted, but ultimately I'm fine with the current system, especially now that I've seen some of the playtest material showing that they're getting rid of mountain dwarf which is now one of the least interesting subraces to me to the point where I was thinking of getting rid of the subrace in my games and just using hill dwarf for both of them.

 

[Bill Zebub]

And why wouldn't some races be biologically better than others in an area?

These rules are for the minuscule fraction of characters that are player characters. They don’t define the whole race.

If you think your PC should be representative of a race that is, for example, very wise, then put your +2 into Wisdom. Solved.

Other people/tables can put their bonuses wherever they want, for whatever concept they imagine, and it has absolutely zero impact on you.

 

[Remathilis]

A monk with a sword is going to play very differently from a guy who can, for instance, make his enemies cower in terror with a battlecry, or move so fast he's effectively teleporting from point A to point B and hit every enemy in between with a sweep of his sword.

What's the difference between that and an eldritch knight who knows Fear and Steel Wind Strike? Isn't just "magic, but non-magical" at that point?

 

[Ixal]

I mean wizards get to be Dr. Strange and fighters are stuck being Ned Stark.

Even when fighters are Hulk, punching people in the face only gets you so far when compared to being able to bend reality.

 

[ehren37]

Nice Captain America level things? Or godlike (eg magical things) like Thor or Captain Marvel?

Captain America is more of a warlord type IMO. Given the gonzo level of magic, I'd put him around 12-15th level

Characters who don't get to repick their superpowers on a daily basis should be more powerful than those that do. Versatility needs a higher price.

Demigod. Demigod. God.

We play a game where casters get to make a pocket dimension at level 3.

 

[Krachek]

I just realize the change for grappling and shoving.
it no more use athletic, and thus dont benefit from expertise.
It take a to hit, and the DC is based on strength and proficiency bonus.
and the grappled target get a free escape attempt at the end of its turn.

 

[Haplo781]

What's the difference between that and an eldritch knight who knows Fear and Steel Wind Strike? Isn't just "magic, but non-magical" at that point?

When your solution to "martials are weaker than casters" is "give them a few spells", something is very wrong with the game's base assumptions.

 

[Cadence]

I mean wizards get to be Dr. Strange and fighters are stuck being Ned Stark.

I'll have to recheck out the 5e spell list and what the magic items do... that doesn't seem to match with the last movie with Strange in it that I watched.

But sure, figuring out what to do with the really high level adventurers seems to be a perennial D&D problem. It feels like its also a problem in a lot of super-hero comics and movies too. (My favorite in comics were those years where Thor would only show up when it was really needed for the plot, because he warped things otherwise and was better off on his own cosmic adventures).

 

[Ixal]

These rules are for the minuscule fraction of characters that are player characters. They don’t define the whole race.

If you think your PC should be representative of a race that is, for example, very wise, then put your +2 into Wisdom. Solved.

Other people/tables can put there bonuses wherever they want, for whatever concept they imagine, and it has absolutely zero impact on you.

Either a race is very wise (high amount of mirror neurons or whatever) then it also applies to exceptional PCs of that race or the race is not wise.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Except everyone gets magic gear. If it were exclusive to non-casting classes that would be a different thing entirely.

The difference is that gear does one of a few things:

1. Makes your weapon attacks a lot better
2. makes your spells a wee bit better
3. Lets you do magic stuff

The third is helpful for casters, because it lets the do a bit more magic, but transformational for non-magic-classes because it lets them do any magic at all.

Going form flying three times a day to 4 times a day is nice. Going form 0 to 1 is a massive impact.

(In practice, it doesn't take much in the way of magic items to keep things balanced enough unless the players have a mentality of competing with each other that overshadows the rest of the game)

 

[doctorbadwolf]

That makes sense. I was a little surprised at your negative reaction, as these seem like changes I would have guessed you would mostly be in favor of. Personally I don’t love everything in this UA, but I do love the general direction, and I’d say most of the changes look positive to me. My biggest gripes are the changes to nat 1s and 20s (which are easy to ignore) and the Aardling race, which I low-key hate. But, I can accept that I’m just not the target audience for them.

Yeah I really like a lot of it, and the stuff I dislike (nat 1s and 20s, crits, halflings, removing half-folk, etc, is fairly unlikely to survive IMO.

Yeah, Stealth proficiency in place of poison resistance or the preternatural ability to hide behind Medium and larger creatures feels like a huge nerf. Though I can see wanting to change Naturally Stealthy since so many DMs outright refuse to let it work the way it clearly says it does (and same for Mask of the Wild), replacing it with Stealth proficiency is just incredibly disappointing.

Agreed. If this makes it to print, I think most halfling players will just use the older version.

It matters because everything coming out from now on, including likely the bulk of 3PP material, will be replaced by the new presentation and format. The 2014 5e will be erased effectively, because the new stuff will still be 5e officially.

This seems extremely unlikely.

 

[Haplo781]

I'll have to recheck out the 5e spell list and what the magic items do... that doesn't seem to match with the last movie with Strange in it that I watched.

But sure, figuring out what to do with the really high level adventurers seems to be a perennial D&D problem. It feels like its also a problem in a lot of super-hero comics and movies too. (My favorite in comics were those years where Thor would only show up when it was really needed for the plot, because he warped things otherwise and was better off on his own cosmic adventures).

You're right.

Strange only wishes he could do what a D&D wizard does.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

Then people would complain that they "need" floating ASI to have two 16 where they want by putting their second highest stat in their +2 and use their free 16 for a secondary attribute.

Its not a rule problem, its a mentality problem. Too many people think the "role" in "role playing" is not "the runaway elf slave who grew up in a mine working every day" but "Two handed axe fighter going into great weapon master" and WotC is actively catering that.

And if the player in question wants to play a two-handed axe fighter going for great weapon master who also happens to be a runaway elf slave who grew up in a mine working all day?

Roleplay and optimization are not mutually exclusive - the only thing locking starting ASIs to race choice does is force optimizers to choose between the two. Floating ASIs give people who like both the option to engage in both without being forced to weigh their desire for system mastery against their desire to try out a race/class combo that would have previously been considered suboptimal.

 

[dave2008]

You'd think so, but the printed EK doesn't learn any spells that enhance attacks - just defenses and some spells that will always be worse attack options than using a weapon.

Yes, really the paladin is the magic knight now that I think about it. That is probably more @Haplo781 's speed.

 

[Haplo781]

Yes, really the paladin is the magic knight now that I think about it. That is probably more @Haplo781 's speed.

No, I want a fighter who gets to be as cool as the other classes. Not a guy who gets his powers from a god.

 

[Umbran]

Mod Note:
The first playtest options, and thus this thread, are about character origins.

Not classes. Not the magic/martial divide.

Please bring it back on topic. Thanks, all.

 

[jmartkdr2]

What's the difference between that and an eldritch knight who knows Fear and Steel Wind Strike? Isn't just "magic, but non-magical" at that point?

Fear is tough to learn because it isn't an abjuration or evocation. Plus the DC is likely to be low since it's int-based which is a tertiary stat at best (con is much more useful

Steel wind strike is fifth level and therefore unavailable without multiclassing.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I have discussed ASI many times on this forum and always the defense for floting ASI will came down to "I want my 18" in the end.

That sounds, to me, more like the strawman put up by people who hate any change because it reminds them that the hobby has grown and doesn’t cater to their demographic anymore. It’s not an argument used by most people (I would say “anybody” but I can’t guarantee that’s true) who want to get rid of racial ASIs.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Either a race is very wise (high amount of mirror neurons or whatever) then it also applies to exceptional PCs of that race or the race is not wise.

Um, no. That just fails at basic statistics.

 

[Micah Sweet]

And martials can break reality by being incredibly strong/skilled.

There's really no rational argument against martials having nice things in a fantasy game.

Depends on what fantasy means to you. It seems to me that to you it means, "literally anything is possible, and reality as we Earth humans understand it has no meaning". That's not a world, even a fantasy one, that I want to play in.