First post, with a question about customizing the Essentials Slayer

[Nemesis Destiny]

I know you guys mean well with the thief suggestion, as it's pretty dead simple to play and probably works better for a mix of melee and ranged, but this player simply could not be bothered to move around every turn to gain combat advantage.

I'll mention it during character creation, but I will probably only get a "well, whatever you think..." out of him. That's fine and dandy but if he can't be bothered to move around, then it does no good for him to make that choice.

His typical combat goes something like: move in to attack closest guy. Spam basic attack or at-will power until it drops. Move to attack next-closest guy. Lather, rinse, repeat. I'm not kidding. He just doesn't think like a thief.

He played a barbarian in a 3e game I ran. He never used his rage unless we urged him to, even when near death. He was being grappled and claw-raked to bits by an Aurumvorax once and could not escape to bring his poleaxe to bear. He kept trying to wrestle it and refused to use his +5 dagger on it because, "It's only a dagger. What's that going to do to it?"

This guy is NOT a tactical thinker. Dead simple movement tricks and combat advantage are not really on his radar. I'm not trying to paint him as stupid, 'cause he's not, it's just that he doesn't think that way. And while I appreciate all your advice, and fully agree that he *should* be playing a Thief or Rogue for this (I even made a new Rogue Tactics and Weapon Talent for it), I know that it won't work well for this player. So my question is not so much, "should I use Thief or Slayer," as it is, "Can I make a Slayer work for this?"

I think the answer is 'yes' and I think I know how I'm going to do it, thanks in part to the help of some earlier posts.

 

[Joshua Randall]

The player in question has been gaming with me for 12 years or so [but] has not really caught on to the advanced options of newer editions.

Uh... he stuck with an increasingly complex system he didn't grok for twelve years? Wow.

I showed him the Essentials books and he really seemed to dig the concept of the new martial class design choices emphasising simplicity.

The character concept is that of a swashbuckling flintlock pistol-wielding sailor who has a tendency toward using just a little too much black powder.

(emphasis added)

The core problem is that this player who prefers simplicity has a character concept that is not simple. No amount of tweaking of 4e's rules is going to fix that problem.

Simple character concepts:

* Me SMASH! (Essentials Slayer would be fine for this)
* Me shoot! (non-Essentials Ranger, spamming Twin Strike)
* Me blast! (wizard choosing only blaster spells, or perhaps sorcerer)

Not simple character concept:

* A swashbuckling flintlock pistol-wielding sailor who has a tendency toward using just a little too much black powder.

 

[Herschel]

I was thinking ranger, and just add the powder riders to the second shot of Twin Strike and the like. Or make the powder blow direct damage in place of/re-flavored Hunter's Quarry with a burst rider but only useable on the second shot, or whatever..

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

Yeah, the best we can figure (he's not one to talk about how he feels about things, other than fishing, hunting, his old truck, or his snowmobile), is that he continues to game with us because he hasn't got anything better to do.

I realize that his concept for this character is not a simple one, and that's why I'm trying to adapt it to some simple(-r) game mechanics that will work better with his play "style."

He has tried all of the other, simpler concepts mentioned, to varying degrees of success.

He liked being a [3e] barbarian, except that he wouldn't rage (didn't like the AC penalty, didn't realize how awesome extra hp and damage was).

He has tried many rangers [2e, 3e, 4e], and despite what you'd think about the class lining up with the kinds of things he likes to do IRL, he didn't really enjoy them. I think he's enjoyed his 4e ranger a little more, but it's hard to tell.

He played a mage once [3e]. He hated it.

He tried a 3e Elven gish. Played it like a fighter. He didn't seem into it.

My experiences playing Shadowrun and CoC with him are similar.

This current character, he actually seemed to like (when the game was in its 2e incarnation). As mentioned, his character was a Fighter/Thief multiclass, but it was mostly focused around his firearm. He liked shooting things with guns. He probably still will, but unless it consists of standing there and shooting, he probably won't "get it." Tactical tricks and moving about... not going to work well for this fella.

[MENTION=78357]Herschel[/MENTION] - I like that idea. I will consider using it.

 

[the Jester]

Sunpowder is an interesting idea, but this world usually tries to pay at least a nod to Earth history (it's semi-gritty fantasy, maybe in the 120-200 range, but with plenty of water to ease the chafing). We're basically treating black powder as an alchemical item (probably level 1), produceable via Brew Potion or Enchant Magic Item rituals. I will probably include the ability to make it with a Martial Practise as well.

No worries- I pretty much expect that anyone that uses any of my sunpowder-related stuff will be converting it to black powder. (Really, the whole sunpowder thing has a long, complex story in my campaign- it's made by orcs worshiping a LG sun god. How on earth did that happen? you ask- well, it has to do with an orcish nation (LE in pre-4e parlance) trying to become accepted as a member of a free trade alliance that would give it immense political and economic power... dwarf missionaries made major inroads, the orcs started to worship Galador and.. anyway, you get the idea.)

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

No worries- I pretty much expect that anyone that uses any of my sunpowder-related stuff will be converting it to black powder. (Really, the whole sunpowder thing has a long, complex story in my campaign- it's made by orcs worshiping a LG sun god. How on earth did that happen? you ask- well, it has to do with an orcish nation (LE in pre-4e parlance) trying to become accepted as a member of a free trade alliance that would give it immense political and economic power... dwarf missionaries made major inroads, the orcs started to worship Galador and.. anyway, you get the idea.)

That's a cool backstory. I like it.

The name 'sunpowder' evoked imagery from (IIRC the first) Underworld movie, where the Lycans came up with capsule ammunition that radiated UV-light and was extremely deadly to the vampires.

In this campaign, black powder is a jealously guarded secret of the Neutrally-aligned Dwarf nations. They, as a race, are pretty much Switzerland, and do their best to broker peace between warring nations adjacent to their lands.

Over time, whether independently or through espionage, two other nations have acquired the technology. One of those nations was a vast and peaceful nation with renaissance-level technology which has since been completely destroyed by a demonic invasion.

The other is a nation of Conquistadors, also adjacent to a dwarf nation, but on the other side of the ocean from the Renaissance nation. They employ black powder weapons to conquer, but they aren't very good at it. They have amazing ships, and guns almost as good as the dwarves, but due to political corruption, their conquests usually fall into despotism within a generation or two, and get reclaimed by the local population not long after that.

The character in question here hails from another nation that the Conquistadors tried to conquer, but were turned back from. This character took up the defeated enemy's weapons, and left on a ship for unknown lands.

 

[Neonchameleon]

If he really does want things quite that simple then dex-based slayer it is. But what stats are you giving the flintlock? If it's a high damage dice (and kicks like a mule) then you don't need to give it the extra riders until he hits level 7 (IIRC) and would get the estra riders on melee weapons.

And make him fully dex-based with Melee Training? Or Str/Dex?

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

If he really does want things quite that simple then dex-based slayer it is. But what stats are you giving the flintlock? If it's a high damage dice (and kicks like a mule) then you don't need to give it the extra riders until he hits level 7 (IIRC) and would get the estra riders on melee weapons.

And make him fully dex-based with Melee Training? Or Str/Dex?

I started another thread here on the subject of the weapon stats. In brief, I went the high damage - low accuracy route (only gets +1 from proficiency), and really slow to reload.

I was going to have the level 7 rider for using the encounter power be a knockdown, hit or miss.

I think the idea with this guy is full Dex, probably w/o Melee Training. He wields a cutlass (refluffed scimitar) as backup, and his Strength mod (+3) is still decent enough to pull it off.