First thoughts on Superman Returns

[thormagni]

Perhaps my post was a little too out there, but I think it merits discussion. After all, aren't we all a little interested in what inspired the writers to fiddle an American cultural icon? It is only a theory, but I believe there are possible reasons why and that these reasons may be very cultural, taking into consideration that Superman is a cultural icon...

I didn't think your post was out there. I just need to ruminate on it a bit more before making any comments. Off the cuff, I don't want to read or watch stories written by people whose idea of heroes are people like our current leaders. Celebrating this "new" America would be unbelievably terrifying for me.

 

[thormagni]

I saw Superman Returns last night. I thoroughly enjoyed the movie. I can see many of Thormagni's points and the x-ray stuff was a tad creepy-ish at times, but the effects were really cool. I know some of you hate it when I say this, but I just go to the movies to be entertained. I was thoroughly entertained while watching Superman Returns.

I just go to the movie to be entertained too. Which is why I hate it so bad when an "entertaining" movie jerks me out of my entertainment mode and forces me to deal with the creepiness, like this movie did. There are things in this story that are just wrong.

 

[Grimhelm]

I guess all I am alluding to is that if entertainment is a mirror of the social values and morals of a society, then there are reasons for the way we change the depictions of our icons. Superman, for all intents and purposes, is much like an ideal. His physical appearance in the old days, when he was first created, and his attitude reflected a Greek idealism coupled with an American idealism. The result was a flying, blue sort of Apollo. Now, as our paradigms shift and change, so too do our icons and images of ideal beings. Superman is now grossly muscular, attracts quasi-gay attention from his peers, and encompasses (in the new movie, at least) a set of values that may indeed reflect the society from which he is now springing... And if this is the case, yuck!

 

[Odovacar's Ghost]

Looks like I'll be renting this one, instead of buying it.

 

[Grimhelm]

I know some of you hate it when I say this, but I just go to the movies to be entertained.

I, for one, do not hate it when anyone says this. I, too, go to a movie to be entertained. We simply have differing ideas of what it is to be entertained!

 

[thormagni]

Superman is now grossly muscular, attracts quasi-gay attention from his peers, and encompasses (in the new movie, at least) a set of values that may indeed reflect the society from which he is now springing... And if this is the case, yuck!

Yuck indeed. I should say again, that I don't think the themes I am talking about here were intentional by the filmmakers or actors. It is all meant in the "good, clean hero" way, I am sure. Maybe I'm just getting so cynical, but I just kept watching the movie and thinking that these actions, if taken by anyone other than Superman, would be disturbing.

Personally, I think there is a very real disconnect between how Americans see themselves and their ideals and the reality of what is happening here. To conservatives, the "truth, justice and American way" motto is an unabashed good thing. Except they are supporting a government that is vehemently opposed to truth, that abhors any notion of justice and is redefining the American Way to mean a place where the rich get richer, the poor get poorer and all of our civil liberties are thrown aside for the promise of protection.

When I hear them rail about protecting America, I can't help but wonder what America means to them. Is it just being the toughest? The biggest? The strongest? I just don't even relate anymore to what they consider to be the American ideal.

Which really, could be my problem with this Superman movie. Maybe I am just supposed to watch it and not think about it too deeply, accept it on its own, circular logic intact. Just like our nation's actions around the world and at home. I mean, we take actions that would be clearly labeled evil if any other nation did them, but because of our supposed innate goodness as a country, those actions are supposedly different when we do them. Much like Superman in the movie, he takes actions that would be evil if done by anyone else. But because he is Superman, I am, I guess, not supposed to see them as evil.

 

[InzeladunMaster]

This Article (Sex and the Superman) argues that historically Superman could and would kill: "Superman’s done nothing but change. Before DC Comics instituted its “code of conduct” in the 1940s, he was a roughneck who tossed criminals around for fun. If they died of heart failure as a result, it was no skin off his nose. A rejected princess tried to stab him; he spanked her. A would-be assassin was crushed between a boat and dock, and Lois recoiled in horror. His stoic response: “But he deserved it.” "

Regardless, it sounds like the movie really did not understand the core values that most of us (including me) attribute to Superman.

 

[Grimhelm]

And of course this reversal of what is good and evil is exactly what I am referring to! And the fact that it is being perpetrated unconsciously is even more telling than if the movie industry had done it on purpose, for this assumes that they are not trying purposefully to show us what good and evil are, the industry is simply reflecting what we already think good and evil are...

 

[Feyd Rautha]

Just got back from seeing the film and I have to say that while I grant you your points I think that they were doing something which we, as individuals and a society, simply couldn't handle... giving Superman the benefit of the doubt.

A couple things stand out to me and forgive me any jumps from your own personal logic, but I think I represent a "second core" audience for the film in that I am familiar with the Superman story, have never read the comics, and I am NOT applying the previous films.

1.) I was never aware of a "Superman does not kill" maxim. Batman is the one I think of when I think "does not kill people...period." With Superman it is more of a goal and one he meets 99% of the time because of his immense power. I do find it disturbing that the five-year-old son's first super act is killing someone, but given the circumstances it was an unavoidable storyline point... If he had showed enough control of his power to simply disable the guy then I'd imagine more people would be bitching that "there is no way he should have that level of control". What irks me more is that Lois and he act like they're just going to "try and forget it". An interesting idea I had though was that they both knew all along and that he is under the strictest of instructions to control his powers. Thus, his profuse apologies after throwing the piano. Really though... include us if that is the case.

2.) All this weird vibe stuff is there because we come from a cynical soceity. Superman is beyond reproach he's the epitome of good and best intentions, but yet we STILL think he's 'stalking' Lois and a deadbeat dad? Think what you will I guess, but I think it's disappointing that we can't simply let him be what he is (ultra good).

3.) I see this film as a new beginning. We all know who Superman is and his basic story. It is not Superman 3 (remix) to me at all. Further Superman OBVIOUSLY didn't know that he had left behind a son and so he wasn't "copping out", but they did do a VERY poor job of dealing with the fact that Lois HAD to know it was Superman's son (unless she's a slut and boned the new guy less than week after Superman). Gives a good reason for why she hates Superman though.

4.) Superman, Gay? I think not... he has to look good (he's SUPERMAN!), we just associate looking good as a guy with gay (because they care more about their appearance)... as for the "grossly muscular" comment I'm confused? Were you watching the Mr. Universe version? I would count him as "fit and visibly strong" not "grossly muscular". As for the sex thing in general...I really see Superman as a grown, puritanical teenager when it comes to sex. The only person he ever really gets close to in that sense is Lois and his relationship with her is so awkward because he doesn't know diddly squat. It's pure and simple. Again... something we can't appreciate in our jaded world.

5.) "Truth. Justice. All that stuff." NOTE: American way removed. This film was inextricably tied to a commentary on our world today. Unfortunately, again, we couldn't just accept it because we can't just fathom a being that is just pure and good.

Things I really liked about the movie (that you'll probably rip to pieces):
*Superman's code and that you can indeed see him as a genuinely good being if you just accept it.
*The homage with the opening credits
*The fact that they revisited once again the theme of his everyone vs. Lois dillemna... and that he chose the greater good at his own heart's peril again.
*That he didn't die. (Sometimes it's the little things)
*That he did have the "savior" themes surrounding him. I mean if that's a beef when you go to see Superman then that's a little odd and contradictory.
*Fun stuff... Kryptonian + Human = Superman w/o Kryptonite vulnerability (Luthor suspects, but the kid shows no effect)

Things they I would have done differently:
*Put Richard in on the info. At the end it seems that he knows Superman is the kid's dad, but in the beginning it doesn't seem that way. Why is he suffering from the fuzzy math? (BTW, I think it's fairly clear that Lois knows throughout the whole film. Why else would she hate him so much).

*I know it complicates things, but you have to have Superman instruct the kid at some point. The last speech seemed like it was him talking like he was leaving again or at least that he wasn't going to take the kid under his wing and just watch from afar. Of course I missed part of it b/c I got drawn into the phone conversation the teens to the right of me were having...

*Superman getting the crap kicked out of him and going back for more. The problem with Superman has always been that it's just boring to have the only challenge you can have him face is too many people to save and too little time. Two thugs and they guy from the White Castle movie beating him senseless is refreshing.

*Cool effect to have the guy unloading on Superman at point blank with the minicannon, but just for a bank robbery? That gun would have probably cost more than their entire haul especially with the military chopper included. And they didn't neutralize the guards when they came in the place? You can't try and put it in the real world and then have something as campy as that thrown in. Great scene though.

*Off of that last one... commit Mr. Singer... commit. They're trying to make it what the movie should have been... a serious story about the complexities of superherodom, but they keep throwing in taglines for the previews ("It's a bird. It's a plane. No. It's...You wanted to see me?"; Luthor as comic relief). An action-drama about Superman didn't test well I guess.

*More oomph. I feel let down by the denouement. You can't clear up the very messy relationship you threw at us between Lois, Superman, their son, and Richard with "I'm always around". More please... BTW, back to the whole "Superman" is almost asexual thing from before (at leave super naive)... Interesting that the guy she goes to after the "plastic man" leaves is a guy named Dick.

Overall I give this one 3.5 out of 5 stars. Too many masters and therefore not enough of the important stuff.

 

[EnderTheElder]

I Believe A Man Can Fly!

I think you guys are all missing the point, you are looking for reasons to not like the movie so you didn't like the movie and there is nothing that could have made you like the movie.