First thoughts on Superman Returns

[thormagni]

I think you guys are all missing the point, you are looking for reasons to not like the movie so you didn't like the movie and there is nothing that could have made you like the movie.

I don't think that is the case at all. I went in wanting to like the movie. I mean, I REALLY like superhero movies. I loved all three X-men movies and both Spider-mans. I enjoyed Batman Begins and the Fantastic Four. I'm really looking forward to Ghost Rider. So if the point is to watch the spectacle and watch comic books come to life on the big screen, I'm all for the point.

But as Feyd said above, the only way to watch this movie, I think, is from the assumption that Superman is a completely pure and good being who has none of the messy needs and drives of ordinary men. Which is to believe that everything he does is good and pure because he is an innately good and pure being. That is exceptionalism, it is terrible circular logic and I just don't see that playing anymore. Especially after introducing the fact that he DOES have human needs and desires. And especially when you have him doing creepy things.

SPOILER WARNING
I remember having a vaguely disturbed feeling throughout the whole movie. Like something was just playing wrong. But the scene that set off the avalanche for me was the one in Lois and Richard's house at the end. I was thinking "What the f*&# is he doing?" when he enters the little boy's room. In the middle of the night. Without the parents knowing.

I can't imagine that scene playing any way but creepy,ever. Even in the innocent, uncorrupted, pure and good ages of the 1940s or 1950s, that would have been creepy. What person would you want sneaking into your kid's room in the middle of the night? I can honestly say that there is NO ONE on the planet in the past or present who I would feel warm and fuzzy about after doing that. A reborn celestial being surrounded in a nimbus of holy light shows up unannounced and uninvited in my son's room at 3 a.m. and I'm going to be concerned.

After that scene snapped me out of my suspension of disbelief, I realized that he had done a LOT of vaguely disturbing things throughout the movie.

 

[thormagni]

This Article (Sex and the Superman) argues that historically Superman could and would kill...

Well sure. And Batman carried a gun way back when. But these characters were made in the late 1930s and early 1940s. So their time being rather cold-blooded was a tiny fraction of their existence. For the last 60 years or so they have had these moral codes that involve what in Champions you would call a 20-point Code vs. Killing. An absolute prohibition on causing another's death or through inaction allowing someone to die.

(See, I brought this around to gaming eventually. It took me forever, but there you go

 

[Grimhelm]

Interesting!

Somehow, Vince, the version you put forth seems more honest. Studying art and the response it gets from "officials" is interesting. Throughout history we have government powers placing great importance upon the message behind these drawings and paintings. The comic code was enacted, if I remember, because there was a fear the comics were spreading degenerate moral values. Very interesting...

As for Superman being gay, no one ever said that. I said it was hinted that he had a gay sidekick.

As for Superman being grossly muscular, in the comics and the toy versions, there have been many grossly out of proportion depictions and renderings made. I was not necessarily referring to the recent movie version of him.

 

[Grimhelm]

I think you guys are all missing the point, you are looking for reasons to not like the movie so you didn't like the movie and there is nothing that could have made you like the movie.

I find this to be rather a ridiculous assumption. Who goes to a movie because they think they are going to hate it? Having a strong sense of judgement and a discriminating sensibility does not make one an anti-freak. It means that if high personal standards are not met, disappointment will follow. I believe, from what I know of John, that he was not "looking for reasons not to like the movie..." I am certain he went because he assumed there would be something to like.

Dare we bring this around to the Gladiator discussion? We better not. Vince will get nothing else done today, and I know he is very busy!

 

[InzeladunMaster]

Dare we bring this around to the Gladiator discussion? We better not. Vince will get nothing else done today, and I know he is very busy!

Thanks! That is one subject best avoided!

I will be going to see Superman Returns today. I am still hoping to like it because he is my favourite superhero, hands down.

I have all the comics from Byrne's reinvention of him to shortly after his marriage to Lois. I have seen all the previous Superman films (including the old serials, "Superman and the Mole Men", and the 1970's & '80's films). I have the Max Fleischer cartoons on DVD. I used to watch "Superfriends" on Saturday mornings. I watched "Lois & Clark" when it was on the air. I used to watch the old 1950's "Adventures of Superman" TV show daily as a child when I came home from school. I have since bought the available episodes on DVD and have recently been re-watching them (they were a nice blend of action-adventure, gangster and mystery genres). I own all sorts of books about or featuring Superman (although I own the most recent one, I haven't had a chance to read it yet).

I have to say that I have avoided watching "Smallville" though. Probably more that I work nights than anything else, though, as to why I have not ever watched it. Despite that lack, I feel I am fairly well educated when it comes to Superman lore.

I am a little disturbed at the reports I am hearing, but I am still hoping to enjoy the movie. I hope the Lois/Clark/Richard crap is minimal, since Perry (my son, not Perry White) is really looking forward to seeing Superman do superheroic crime-fighting stuff - which is what I hope the movie focuses on.

 

[Grimhelm]

You know, that makes me wonder if Pablo might enjoy it. I think he is a little young, though. He loves his Justice League DVDs, though! I have to admit that the Justice League stuff is pretty good, for the cartoon superhero genre. It's done by the Emmy award winning guys who did Batman...

 

[InzeladunMaster]

Yeah, my boys like the Justice League, too. Pretty good stuff. I am mostly going to see the film today because of Perry. I'm actually becoming disenchanted with theatres due to rudeness of the patrons, so am content this time to wait for DVD, but Perry REALLY wants to see Superman. He gets so excited when he talks about it.

I hope the filmmakers did not forget the children when they made the movie. I hope it did not go the way comics have gone (being made for aging nerds instead of for kids).

 

[thormagni]

I hope it did not go the way comics have gone (being made for aging nerds instead of for kids).

HEY! I resemble that remark.

 

[Fyrestryke]

Vince, send us a report when you're done. I'd like to know what you thought of the movie. I especially would like to know what you thought of the other "Superman" trailer.

 

[InzeladunMaster]

Just got back. I didn't think it was as bad as John intimated, but the film could have had a lot less of the personal crap (the whole love triangle thing), and there was little point in even bothering to have Clark Kent at all in the movie (most of what he said was quotes from the first movie). It was an unneeded complication for an adventure story. It wasn't as good as past Superman films, though.

The boys gave it a resounding thumbs up. They loved it.

My only real nitpick - I really think Superman's cape should have a yellow "S" symbol on it, and his didn't. Amanda echoed Johns's sentiment that he looked like a toy (but she added that he looked like a sexy toy...)

Good points - I started to tear up when the Superman music started playing at the beginning, and Brandon Routh's smile gave me the same "safe" feeling that Christopher Reeve's or George Reeves' smile used to. That was nice.

Dracula is back! Yay! I loved seeing Frank Langella back in action! He played Perry White (he was also the 1979 Dracula).

Flying scenes were done and all the superheroics had me clapping in glee.

Kevin Spacey was an evil, evil Lex Luthor. He did a good job.

Other than the love triangle scenes (which kind of dragged), it was a fun movie. Amanda adds that at least the love triangle stuff didn't drag out as badly as it did in X Men III. If a sequel is made, I can see this stuff becoming REAL annoying.

Posey Parker did a decent job as Lex's henchwoman (what happened to Miss Teschmacher?)

Kate Bosworth as Lois Lane was not impressive. She didn't bring anything to remind people of the character, and did not have a lot of presence (despite resembling Natalie Portman in some scenes).

What was up with Superboy's hair? Lois and her fiancee are immaculate and wealthy, so why was his hair so long and unkempt? If I ever let Victor's hair grow that long as a kid, someone should take me aside and smack me around a little. (Speaking of which, I do need to take him for a haircut...). The kid also looked dazed and confused in most scenes.

Overall it was a fun movie, but it wasn't great. I'm glad I saw it, and it is nice to have Superman back. I hope they make more (but lose the love triangle crap).

And I LOVED the Spiderman III preview!

The worst part of the whole thing was the almost $50 price tag. $23 for Amanda, me, Victor and Perry, then another $25 for four waters and two medium popcorns.