D&D 4E first time dm creating 4e world, help pls?

[Wiman]

Personally with big campaigns such as the one you are planning and with a new system I like to do (and probably will do) perhaps 3-4 mini sessions on my new campaign world....show your characters a few little fights and some cultural flare of different area's...they are using the same characters (from a mechanics perspective) but are actually different people from a roll playing perspective every time. After 4 games of switching places, put them into the Shadowfell prison at level 2 or even 3 with the personality they liked the best, I know it's play style and not in game personality conflict that seems to be your fear for a fractured party - but by giving them 4 different chances to play a one play game you can challenge them to think outside their box in play style and a player who gets to see four sides of themselves (they are still advancing their character in experience so they still get the XP gratifaction) and also four corners of the world tend to have more commitment to the same world when something threatens it.

I understand the cube mechanic to keep the party together, but will this mean that everytime you guys decide to play a campaign in D&D you need an artifact to keep your party together - I believe some of your problems that you faced in previous games was simply that the party fractured just to erk the DM who had been forcing them along...your previous DM is probably the only reason that you need that cube in the first place.

Having an villian like Sylar may become a problem as not all your characters may not have a proper hate on for him by the 16-18th level when they begin fighting him. I like to have a villian who acts as a foil for each PC, in little time you will figure out how each characters personality works - the villian should be the exact opposite but mesh well with their own "party" as it is.....it will keep the party together if they know the only way they can get "that guy and his friends" is by bringing your own friends along for the ride. Since Sylar is mad now from the Shadowfell torture - make him the sum of the evil party in personality traits thus when the PC's finally nail their foils and are looking for someone else to be a challenge to them Sylar comes along into the spotlight.....then the Evil gods. (I'm pretty sure you understand this dynamic - I'm sorry if I come out as explaining too much, it's just the way my mind works.)

All in all I'm impressed with what you have (I've played in a few campaigns like yours - actually three where the first one occured before the bad things happened, the second when the bad things happened <TPK on the end fight on purpose......grrrrrr>, the thrid in the aftermath of the bad things happening.) That was three campaigns in the telling (level 20 at least each) however, not one which I believe you are aiming for - I wish you luck (no sarcasm implied).

 

[cr0m]

Flip, what's the first session about? I find if you can nail that, you're much more likely to get players who will stay for the long haul.

To put it another way, what's the situation that the players can't ignore when the game starts?

 

[Flipguarder]

The great advice keeps coming, thanks so much

It sounds like your method to campaign creation is similar to mine, though you do a bit more design work than I do off the bat. The problem I find with creating "instances" and plot bits before hand is that they are wasted if the PCs you make don't want to go that route.

An idea that I've had for a long time, is that I would totally be fine with changing a situation to fit the level, and moving the location of the dungeon.

Example I have a "plan" that's not necessary for the plot, but helpful. I thought it would be fun to put near the beginning of paragon tier, but would work just as well later, with some modification if the levels aren't too terribly different in 4e

Olidimarras temple. The temple of a now dead god who loved to trick people and considered dishonesty a virtue. His temple has been abandoned by his clerics, and as a last homage by them, they filled the temple with traps (and I've made some doosies, about 50% of my prep time so far has been building traps and situational/strategic battles) and constructs. and at the center, some "ultimate treasure" waits inside. If they want to do it fine, if not, Im ok with a few of my "instances" being unused.

They don't ever visit the town of Eccel, they can do it later in Ristone. just move the temple, change the damage and difficulty of traps.

My personal style is let my players make whatever they want then make the story based off the players and the world I've created rather than making players conform to the the world and story I created in advance.

I prefer to work with my players while they are working on their characters one on one to be sure their characters work with my world.

Player: "I'm an elven sorcerer".
DM: "Well, Elves are banished and sorcerers are hunted by the government, so uh...".

BEST IDEA EVER. I have a lot of work on my hands now. *hugs iron sky*

I would probably work something out that I have several character driven sub-plots that worm their way into more important parts of the story later. This still utilizes my in-depth story, but I can morph it later, and the character's will feel more in control.

Thank you so much

Personally with big campaigns such as the one you are planning and with a new system I like to do (and probably will do) perhaps 3-4 mini sessions on my new campaign world....show your characters a few little fights and some cultural flare of different area's

Im doing this exact thing, I run 3 sessions each seperatly, then I end with them being captured in various ways.

I understand the cube mechanic to keep the party together, but will this mean that everytime you guys decide to play a campaign in D&D you need an artifact to keep your party together - I believe some of your problems that you faced in previous games was simply that the party fractured just to erk the DM who had been forcing them along...your previous DM is probably the only reason that you need that cube in the first place.

I'm a noob using a noob tactic, I've made peace with this. By the time I know what I'm doing in this campaign, it will be unimportant outside of a plot item.

Having an villian like Sylar may become a problem as not all your characters may not have a proper hate on for him by the 16-18th level when they begin fighting him. I like to have a villian who acts as a foil for each PC, in little time you will figure out how each characters personality works - the villian should be the exact opposite but mesh well with their own "party" as it is.....it will keep the party together if they know the only way they can get "that guy and his friends" is by bringing your own friends along for the ride. Since Sylar is mad now from the Shadowfell torture - make him the sum of the evil party in personality traits thus when the PC's finally nail their foils and are looking for someone else to be a challenge to them Sylar comes along into the spotlight.....then the Evil gods. (I'm pretty sure you understand this dynamic - I'm sorry if I come out as explaining too much, it's just the way my mind works.)

first off, overexplaining is what I do, no one else comes close.

I love this BBEG. For most of the campaign until this point, most of the help they get, and the obstacles they face is this guy. The will also learn before the battle that the only reason they have the artifact is because the "good side" of him, the sane side, used them to destroy pandorym capturing them outside of orders and giving them the artifact to protect. However, his dominated side is what they see when they finally see him, and I hope their feelings on the fight will be conflicted at best.

My plan is to figure out what abilities my characters favor (3.5 example, my character in our campaign has a sudden empowered sound lance I love to use.) Dm decided last sunday we were gonna fight some green slads:

DM: Jon what do you wanna do?
Jon: Soundlance
DM: You sure? (not really hinting at anything, he says this all the time)
Jon: yup
DM: it fizzles against him
Jon: I don't even get to roll damage?

I want to have all my player's favorite abilities useless against him, invisible sneak attacking caster/rogue, invisibility purge. He's been watching the PCs through his cohorts and soldiers, he knows what they can do, and is prepared for it.

Flip, what's the first session about? I find if you can nail that, you're much more likely to get players who will stay for the long haul.

To put it another way, what's the situation that the players can't ignore when the game starts?

The player's each find themselves in a prison cell with a ladder next to it, other cells exist in a vertical format. There are two treasure chests in each cell. One of the chests opens without a key and holds 1-2 keys the keys must be traded back and forth between the characters to escape and then escape out the prison door, this leads to a corridor with doors that are powerfully arcane locked, they can cause an encounter if too loud here, there is a chest with a sign above it that says, do not open. its trapped.

The door out of the hallway has a lever next to it, this lever is trapped, the door is unlocked.

Later they go to a trio of doorways that lead to the same path on the other side, there are switches near the entrances from each doorway, pressing one gives them thier items back, pressing two opens the door, pressing three releases a swarm of rats.

Later on they enter a room and a large, very deadly, very scary golem rises from a cylinder platform with a hourglass next to him, it will wake up when it runs out and attack anyone in the room.

Later on they find a virtually impassable passageway, that has large visible rewards at the other side, but is obviously going to kill them, taking 20 on a search check reveals a secret door to the outside of the jail.

After that they can get the jump on some goblins if they are quiet and smart, they are currently arguing about a game of cards. Using the only pathway, they find a stargate.

Okay the stargate, long, complicated, I've worked it out, but yes, it looks exactly like they do in the show and movie, its commonly called a gate, or a planar gate and are powered in odd ways involving Flarhgan (or however you spell it) long ago. I have contingency plans but if they follow reason, they will go back to the material plane (midworld)

When they get there they are inside some mostly destroyed teifling ruins and outside there is a cliff, in the valley below the cliff they see a battle between two gods Nerull and Kord and there clerics. and THAT's where i end it.

thus the long-winded Noobguarder shuts his mouth.

 

[Iron Sky]

I wish I'd been as squared away as you are when I started gaming. Sounds like you'll be a good DM, best of luck in your game(s).

 

[Wiman]

Same here, my first adventurers always ended in TPK when I DM'ed...of course I was DMing for my older brothers....and paybacks a bbbbbbbb........ah better not.

Keep in touch Flip, and come June maybe start posting your campaign stories...I'm interested to see how it goes for you guys.

Cheers

 

[Herobizkit]

Why have one artifact when you can have "a bunch of little magic items that MAKE an artifact"?

In the vein of Captain Planet, how's about giving each PC a little trinket that becomes something teh awesome when the PC's work together and "let their powers combine"?

Or...

How about making the cube a puzzle box, and each PC is bound to a puzzle fragment... once the foozle is together, they each gain a special ability/abilities but only so long as they are within close proximity to the cube?

The Rod of Seven parts immediately comes to mind.

 

[cr0m]

Hey Flip,

What you've described isn't a situation, it's the encounters. Check this out:

Your plot: an evil god is up to no good, but his right-hand-minion is secretly helping the characters defeat him.

A situation is something the players can grab onto and deal with right now. To use LoTR as an example, destroying the Ring is the plot, but the situation is: black riders are coming to ***-ing kill you, right now.

My advice--since you want to start with a prison break, start there. Start with the right-hand-minion visiting the players in prison. Depending on how much you want to reveal to the players, have the minion tell them "get to the gate or you'll be dead by morning" and hand them the cube "this will protect you from the moon's curse".

Now the players know what to do *and* they'll likely be curious about the identity of their benefactor and why he chose to save them. I think this is much better than an open jail cell and a mysterious cube.

See this blog for more about Plot vs Situation:
Situations not plots.

 

[Lackhand]

Sounds like you've got it well-in-hand. Starting the game can be tough -- you've avoided the tried-and-true "you are in an inn, drinking your ale when...", so that's a good sign

Flip: Have you read the Dungeoncraft column? I find it's pretty useful stuff; it was linked on the main page a few days ago, and some of what cr0m (who is wise!) is talking about is touched on there.

Plus it's fun to read.

Also good were Mike Mearls' columns on designing and portraying villains, and Mumblemumble Mumblemumble's columns on adventure design, originally posted on the wizard's site. I have them cached on my home computer and can repost them, if you can't find them, monday.

 

[Warbringer]

The thing is, players owe this to the DM. The DM goes to all the trouble of writing a bunch of adventures and a world to have them in, and the best the players can come up with to support the game is to say "well, my elf doesn't like that dwarf, so he's leaving"? That's totally weak, and disrespectful of the hard work the DM is putting in to make a fun game possible for the group.

QFT