First-Time DM - Keep on the Shadowfell

Aplus · Apr 24, 2010

I am an old 2E player that has decided to put together a game among old friends. We will be running the keep on the shadowfell module in order to get a feel for the game, then everyone will reroll and we will do a full-fledged campaign (likely the scales of war adventure path). I have been reading as much as I possibly can, but I am making this post to solicit tips - both for a rookie DM, and anything pertaining to this module in particular. I want to ensure fun is had by all. any help is appreciated. oh yes, one other thing. my party is going to consist of 6-7 players rather than the standard 5, so any tips on tuning encounters and keeping things moving are greatly appreciated. thanks in advance!

Hejdun · Apr 24, 2010

KotS is quite a grind. As in, a mind boggling abount of combat. I would consider trimming some of the encounters. Another thing to keep in mind is that most of the enemies are melee-only, and there are chokepoints aplenty, which leads to boring, static fights.

From just reading through the first half of the Scales of War adventure path, I would seriously advise against running it as a rookie DM. With rare exceptions, the "adventure path" consists of barely connected adventures consisting of barely connected encounters. The highlight of the adventure path is the wonderful epic battles that spring up. WotC has a good eye for making interesting combats. Unfortunately, it will take dozens of hours of deciphering what exactly the plot is, and much more to communicate it to the PCs in a coherent way. You WILL have to provide 50%+ of the content for Scales of War.

I've heard very good things about War of the Burning Sky (hosted here!), but I haven't had the opportunity to look through it better.

UngeheuerLich · Apr 24, 2010

depends, what you expect from a published adventure. KOTS is not that bad, free and partially revised.

As a ADnD 2nd edition adventure DM in 3rd edittion and 4th edition, i expect you to make fun out of everything. Just play it like you would play any adventure with roleplaying and such inbetween those encounters. 4e is great for this.

Daern · Apr 24, 2010

There are lots and lots of positive threads around about improving the module. As it stands my main suggestion would be to consider trimming a combat here and there if things get too slow.

Also, if you have a hardcopy definitely download the revised PDF from Wizards. It has a few key changes that are really good.

LightPhoenix · Apr 25, 2010

The big thing to worry about with KotS is the battle against Irontooth. In general, 4E emphasizes defenders (Fighter/Paladin/Warden/Swordmage/Battlemind) being "sticky". That is, keeping enemies near them and attacking them. However, in the combat versus Irontooth, being sticky will get a defender cut down very quickly. It's a sort of "gotcha" moment, and by the time groups realize it, usually the damage is done. I'd make sure to emphasize he does better when he doesn't move (ie, running around makes him unbalanced or some such).

I'm running Scales of War right now, and while there are some threads between the modules, I'm finding I have to fill in a lot. I've somewhat heavily modified the meta-plot to make some of it make more sense. One big thing that I didn't realize going in is that Overlook, and not Brindol, is meant to be the PC's base of operations. Looking back, I would just use Overlook as the setting for the first adventure.

Piratecat · Apr 25, 2010

Consider running War of the Burning Sky; I'm sort of prejudiced, but I think it's a great adventure path for new players. Far more roleplaying-oriented than some other options you might have.

frankthedm · Apr 25, 2010

Aplus said:
We will be running the keep on the shadowfell module

Well, there are free counter sheets available for that module if you don't have enough minis.

Here is a really nice set of counters made by Claudio Pozas
H1 - Castle Of Shadows - Fiery Dragon | DriveThruRPG.com

If you like video games, here are some ready to print counters copy and pasted together.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/art-ga...15-sources-images-use-tokens.html#post4224843

Hell on the subject of free, the module is available as a free download from wotc.

Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (D&D Test Drive)

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/H1.pdf

brunswick · Apr 26, 2010

I'm running this adventure for two separate groups right now and here's what I did with it.

1. Printed off the revised PDF from WoTC - as others have said, the revised version does have some cool modifications, which the module kinda needed IMHO.

2. There's a thread somewhere on here, with a link to another website where somone "The Alexandrian"(?) wrote about 7 essays about what he did with various parts of the module and I've borrowed/tweaked many of his ideas.

3. I agree with the other posters that there's just too much combat in the adventure, as written (again, IMHO, but I feel sure my groups would get bored with the adventure, with no modification at all). I sliced off some of the rooms of Level 1 of the Dungeon and I substantially rewrote Level 2, placing fewer encounters but ones that I feel are more suitable and 'atmospheric' encounters there, that I think/hope will be more enjoyable for my groups. I also replaced the magical items provided in the adventure with items suitable to the characters in my group.

4. Another thing I did was to create new "boxed text" paragraphs so that I could give the players much more meaningful/atmospheric room descriptions than the module provides. Obviously, I had to create completely new boxed text for the second level, since its almost a 'new' dungeon compared to the one thats in the book. The author generally seems to have concentrated on describing the monsters in the boxed text, and gave scant attention, in my view, to the room descriptions.

Best of luck with it.

Bruns.

TerraDave · Apr 26, 2010

KoTS is meant to be the 4E version of an old school dungeon crawl. This means, yes, lots of combat. If you were doing 2E realms with Greyhawk, FR, or a classic style homebrew and like fighting, probably ok. If you were running a more story oriented game and liked that, could be a problem.

The strengths:
Winterhaven: simple homebase with just enough to keep it interesting,
The Postermaps, if you have them,
Monster stats right there! (this is true for all WotC 4E stuff)
The little classic touches here and there
(not quite as strong but) The backstory and the ways the players can learn about it

Weakness
Fight, fight, fight. If you are playing frequently and like a tactical game, this might be a strength.
No so much story...outside the deep backstory...this is very much "location based" (though stuff does happen outside the main dungeon) again, this can be a strength
The hidden master. Also sort of old school (and pretty common in general) you players will learn about the main bad guy, but won't meet him till the end. And he won't do much till then.
More classic, then original: I thought the module had some nice little touches, but not really a breakthrough in any sense.

If, back in the day, you would run old modules and adopt them by putting in more story and maybe cutting back on the hack and slash a little, its the same thing here. And ya, the fight with the kobolds at there homebase, deadly.