Fix for Orb

[MeMeMeMe]

People have pointed out that the Orb + Sleep combo is probably broken, if combined with a very high WIS.

Has anyone suggested a fix for this?
One thing I'm considering is: apply the rule as written for the first save, then reduce the WIS bonus by 2 per turn till it reaches zero.
Or, it applies in full for one save, is halved for the second, and is negated for third and later.
Or even, the bonus applies for just one save. That makes it work fairly similarly to the second option listed for Orb Mastery.

Either way would mean there's a good chance of getting an extra turn or two of sleep out of it, which is a big benefit in 4e, without being as powerful as it is presently.

Are these good approaches?
Do people have other ideas?

 

[TimeOut]

People have pointed out that the Orb + Sleep combo is probably broken, if combined with a very high WIS.

Because Sleep has an error in its wording, which will hopefully be corrected. I see no need for "fixing" here.

But if you think that Orb Mastery is too strong, I like your "bonus applies only to one save" approach.

 

[MeMeMeMe]

What do you think the wording of Sleep should say?

 

[keterys]

I imagine it should include the text 'If the unconscious target takes any damage, it is no longer unconscious' like the other unconscious powers.

Sleep used to put you to sleep - the problem being that people could wake you up _really_ easily. I think in changing it from sleep to unc, they just forgot that one little tidbit.

 

[MeMeMeMe]

That makes sense.

 

[TimeOut]

IIRC, the original wording of Sleep was "... the target falls asleep".

Asleep was a condition basically defined as "unconscious + any damage wakes you up". I suppose an editor thought that "asleep" was not a keyword and changed it.

 

[mattdm]

IIRC, the original wording of Sleep was "... the target falls asleep".

Asleep was a condition basically defined as "unconscious + any damage wakes you up". I suppose an editor thought that "asleep" was not a keyword and changed it.

But sleeping people can make a perception check at -5 to see if they notice anything going on and awake. What's the perception DC for a battle ranging about you? 0? -20? So I see why they changed it, but I agree the extra wording seems necessary.

 

[MeMeMeMe]

Then sleep spell renders the victim unconscious, not merely asleep.
A DM would be within his rights to say you don't get a perception roll to wake up, until after you make your saving throw.

 

[keterys]

Except, once you make your saving throw, you're no longer unconscious

The sleep spell _used to_ put you to sleep, which is _really_ easy to wake up from... now it makes you unconscious (quick edit so it doesn't suck, woo!) but... now it can be insanely hard to wake up, to the extent that you can put someone to sleep then hit them twenty or forty times with a sword and they won't wake up.

That's... questionable.

 

[TimeOut]

...so the easiest fix would be: "[...] the target becomes unconcious (save or any damage recieved ends)."