D&D 5E "Fixing" assassinate.

[TheDelphian]

I usually, as GM, decide when initiative is rolled.

Which in the case of assassination, if the character has set things up well gives them a free shot/attack before I even roll for initiative. Not sure how RAW that is without saying rule 0. but it works. It gives the assassin a chance to shine but not just get a freebie every time. They actually have to work at it, sneaking, infiltrating whatever and allows me to consider circumstances the assassin is both aware of and are not aware of.

Makes it easy.

 

[Flamestrike]

I usually, as GM, decide when initiative is rolled.

Which in the case of assassination, if the character has set things up well gives them a free shot/attack before I even roll for initiative. Not sure how RAW that is

It's not RAW at all, and it's a bad idea.

 

[Fenris-77]

A character is surprised for the entire first round, they don't become unsurprised on their initiative step in that first round. There's no mention of needing to a higher initiative. Where are you getting that rule from?

 

[TheDelphian]

It's not RAW at all, and it's a bad idea.

Why is it a bad Idea? I adjudicate my own game. Is the system somehow superior to my own judgement?

 

[Flamestrike]

Why is it a bad Idea? I adjudicate my own game. Is the system somehow superior to my own judgement?

If I was playing in your game and an Assassin NPC 'got in an autocrit outside of initative' despite the rules for surprise expressly contemplating this exact situation, I'd be furious.

It should go (Assassin v Guard):

1) You compare the Stealth check of the Assassin to the Perception score of the Guard.​

2) If the Assassin check is higher, he is hidden (presuming the situation lets him hide or sneak up undetected of course).​

3) The Assassin initiates combat by declaring some kind of hostile action triggering a combat encounter and the switch from narrative time to combat rounds: 'I'll fire my crossbow at the Guard!'.​

4) DM narrates the PCs action: 'You poke around the corner of your hiding spot and fire your crossbow; the Guards eyes widen in surprise as the -click' of the crossbow goes off, Roll initiative!'​

5) Initiative is rolled and turns are taken in order.​

​

Depending on the outcome of the initiative result:

The Guard rolls higher - he has his turn first, does nothing, moves nowhere and his turn ends. DM narrates it 'The guard fumbles for his weapon and brings up his shield, as his eyes look up in your direction, scanning for the source of the noise!'

He cant be assassinated anymore because he reacted to the Ambush quick enough (thanks to the opposed Dexterity check - i.e. initiative check - he made at the start of the encounter).

The Assassin rolls higher - Assassinate away.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Somehow I missed this thread.

My 2 cents:
- Assassinate is fine. I've played it and love it. As one of the first responders posted, its main purpose is Advantage in the first round. Great synergy with the alert feet. And, yes, every now and then you get an automatic crit, too, which is fun.
- The OPs suggestion is actually a really interesting mechanic, but as another of the first responders posted, it's not very 5e-ish. Too fiddly.
- Charlequin is right. As usual.

 

[Horwath]

If I was playing in your game and an Assassin NPC 'got in an autocrit outside of initative' despite the rules for surprise expressly contemplating this exact situation, I'd be furious.

It should go (Assassin v Guard):

1) You compare the Stealth check of the Assassin to the Perception score of the Guard.​

2) If the Assassin check is higher, he is hidden (presuming the situation lets him hide or sneak up undetected of course).​

3) The Assassin initiates combat by declaring some kind of hostile action triggering a combat encounter and the switch from narrative time to combat rounds: 'I'll fire my crossbow at the Guard!'.​

4) DM narrates the PCs action: 'You poke around the corner of your hiding spot and fire your crossbow; the Guards eyes widen in surprise as the -click' of the crossbow goes off, Roll initiative!'​

5) Initiative is rolled and turns are taken in order.​

​

Depending on the outcome of the initiative result:

The Guard rolls higher - he has his turn first, does nothing, moves nowhere and his turn ends. DM narrates it 'The guard fumbles for his weapon and brings up his shield, as his eyes look up in your direction, scanning for the source of the noise!'

He cant be assassinated anymore because he reacted to the Ambush quick enough (thanks to the opposed Dexterity check - i.e. initiative check - he made at the start of the encounter).

The Assassin rolls higher - Assassinate away.

This is why there should be the surprised round back in the game.

I would allow the guard to roll for initiative only when already having a bolt in his head.

not to mention that rolling initiative before completion of surprise round promotes meta-game from the Assassin player.

 

[ad_hoc]

A character is surprised for the entire first round, they don't become unsurprised on their initiative step in that first round. There's no mention of needing to a higher initiative. Where are you getting that rule from?

There is no mention of being 'unsurprised' after the first round.

Where you are getting that from? Counting as the end of the first round is just as arbitrary as saying they aren't surprised after some time later either.

They stop being effected by surprise once they have had a turn. If they are not affected by being surprised that means they are not surprised anymore.

Otherwise they would be surprised for the entire combat which doesn't make any sense.

 

[Flamestrike]

This is why there should be the surprised round back in the game.

I would allow the guard to roll for initiative only when already having a bolt in his head.

not to mention that rolling initiative before completion of surprise round promotes meta-game from the Assassin player.

No there shouldn't, no there shouldn't and no it doesn't.

 

[Horwath]

Good point. In our main game, the Fighter (samurai)/Rogue (assassin) is our scout and when there is a single guard, he really shines.

But, the rest of the party is usually 100 ft or more back... luckily our monk can get there quickly if needs be.

this is why assassinate rules have to change.

by RAW they are anti-fun.

1. Your assassin has to solo infront, stealing all the spotlight from other players.

2. If he does not do that the he gives up his main theme of the class. Anti-fun for assassin.

3. He/she can bash other players to take one level of rogue for expertise and stealth and to give up heavy armor. Anti-fun for probably for most players that do not want to play stealthy character.


having assassinate work for 1st attack assassin makes if he alone manages to be undetected by the target is best of both worlds.