Fixing Toughness

[Runestar]

It just seems to me that a 3 extra hp seems almost inconsequential to a monster which already has 800+ hp. Or at least, I find the toughness feat an eyesore in any statblock...

It is not you, probably just the optimizer in me...

 

[Drowbane]

IMC, Toughness has been house ruled to +1hp/lvl (per instance of taking it) since 4/17/2002.

I chuckled when I saw the Complete Warrior's improved toughness. Frickin' WotC!

I don't have an "Improved Toughness" feat available at this time.

 

[Zustiur]

I've been toying with the following idea:
Toughness grants 3 HP upon taking the feat.
Thereafter, when rolling for HP at each level, the character can re-roll 1's.

If this is deemed too effective, I may limit it by saying that once you've prevented 3 1's, you don't have any more rerolls left. Or similar.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I've been toying with the following idea:
Toughness grants 3 HP upon taking the feat.
Thereafter, when rolling for HP at each level, the character can re-roll 1's.

If this is deemed too effective, I may limit it by saying that once you've prevented 3 1's, you don't have any more rerolls left. Or similar.

Too effective?!
EVERY game I've ever been in or run has had a reroll 1's houserule, nearly all even covering the d4, which really doesn't need much help to reach an average result from several levels worth of rolls. Heck, most let higher HD rolls re-try 2's and possibly 3's. One time I made a 4d12 HD character and rolled something like 2, 3, 5 in a game where the DM didn't have such rules. May as well have made a wizard and pump my con modifier at that point. He would NOT let me reroll. The character was going to be a bodyguard! Ah, and it seems I've ranted.

 

[Herzog]

would those re-rolls work retro-active?

in other words, if a player has rolled two ones on his first five levels, and takes Toughness at lvl 6, would you let him re-roll those hp?

 

[Wolf72]

I like the original version. +3 hp is pretty strong for lower levels. I'd "fix" it by making it a prereq for Improved Toughness, then add a Superior Toughness that adds +10 hit points, +1 hit point per level.

or even a prereq for the other toughness feats from other books (dwarfs, giants, dragons versions ... think they go +6, +9, +12)

toughness is perfect for a 1st lvl wiz or sorc with 4hp.

 

[akbearfoot]

The group I used to play with improved it a little.


Toughness gives you +3 hitpoints, and increases your death threshhold by 3 hitpoints. So you die at -13 instead of -10. Also added the 3 hps to anything like Diehard that normally functions until -10.


Actually makes it into a decent feat, while remaining inferior to imp toughness after low levels.

 

[Jhaelen]

Toughness gives you +3 hitpoints, and increases your death threshhold by 3 hitpoints. So you die at -13 instead of -10. Also added the 3 hps to anything like Diehard that normally functions until -10.

That's ... interesting.
Do you still allow it to be taken multiple times and stack?

 

[akbearfoot]

Honestly I don't remember it ever coming up...

Can't see a reason why you couldnt take it more than once. Unless there is some new ability or class I dont know about that would abuse it.

I haven't seen many characters that would be willing to spend more than a couple feats total on improving their hitpoints....Toughness/Imp toughness in this case....Thats 3+HD hitpoints and an extra 3pt death rating.


The game I play in now uses the death threshhold variant where you can go to negative half your max hitpoints before dying....Less emphasis on 'omg healz me' and '1 more hit and Im dead....I run away' and 'oh look this round I fail to stabilize and am at -9hps'...more emphasis on stepping up heroically and getting in that last hit before getting knocked out spectacularly.

 

[Jhaelen]

Honestly I don't remember it ever coming up...

Can't see a reason why you couldnt take it more than once. Unless there is some new ability or class I dont know about that would abuse it.

While I am sure someone would find a way to abuse it that's not even what I had in mind.

The majority of character deaths in my campaign have been caused by someone being dropped from single digit hp to -11 to -20. All of them could have been saved if they had taken the feat once or twice (using close wounds).
Now a feat's a pretty precious resource for most characters (except maybe fighters), so I'm not sure if it would've been worth it.

Next session I'm going to ask my players what they think