Fixing Toughness

[Delta]

The Toughness Feat is infamous for being particularly weak. What are some ideas for fixing Toughness in a way that it's balanced with other feats?

Here's two suggestions:
(1) Toughness grants an added 2 hit points per level.
(2) Toughness grants an added 3 hit points, +1 per level.

(I figure I'll gather ideas here & post a poll later.)

EDIT: This line of inquiry is in the context of core-rules only.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

If you have Arcana Evolved, check out the Sturdy feat. It's like toughness, but better. It gives 4 hp, or double your con modifier (in addition to the con modifier you normally add to hp when levelling up), whichever is higher. Makes the feat potentially very good compared to Imp. Toughness. My only two issues with it is that:
a) that can get quite obscene for a high con character, enough to be broken at low level play
and b) I'd rather if it were based on HD or something. The reason being that as is, mages generally have less stats they need high than warriors and thus can afford higher con to offset the HD difference. This feat could really exacerbate that problem (well, I consider it a problem). In general, I'm opposed to making base HD less significant. As for your ideas....
1) Do you mean that taking toughness gives you 3 +2/level hp? Because that is way too much and blows Improved Toughness out by comparison.
2) Is this the same as 1) but a lower progression? If so, still +3 over Improved Toughness and w/ less requirements (none, in fact).

Did you mean for successive choices of the feat to give more and more hp? As in, 1) would mean the first time would be +3, second would give +5, third would give +7, etc...? That might work.

 

[frankthedm]

The Toughness Feat is infamous for being particularly weak. What are some ideas for fixing Toughness in a way that it's balanced with other feats?

If you feel the need to change it when running a game, just fuse it's effect with Improved toughness. +1 HP per level/HD [minimum 3]. Just remember toughness is intentionally used as a 'throwaway feat' to pay for entry into some PRCs. Be sure to change the prerequisite feat to something that is sub optimal for the class.

For example the Dwarven Defender feat requirements: Dodge, Endurance, Toughness are often considered throwaway feats. If you houserule toughness, then change the DD feat requirements to Dodge, Endurance and Great Fortitude. The +2 to fort saves while useful, will be unneeded overkill with the character's already impressive fort save. Much like how the 3HP of toughness are hardly noticeable to a Dwarf Fighter/Defender.

 

[Herzog]

If you think Toughness is too weak, then don't take it....

There is already Improved Toughness, which doesn't even have Toughness as requirement, and gives you +1 hp per HD.

Toughness is a feat for those low levels, when every hp counts.
If you think you should be able to replace it later, when it isn't so helpfull anymore: you can! use the retraining rules from PH2.

Touchness doesn't need 'fixing'. It's not weak for the levels it was meant for (1-5). It's supposed to be a throwaway feat for PrC's (as mentioned earlier) and if at later levels you really want to get rid of it, you can retrain it (assuming you didn't need it for a PrC)

 

[Thanee]

If you think Toughness is too weak, then don't take it...

That's really the best way to "fix" Toughness.

If you want to make it cool... give it a Prerequisite of Con 16+ and change it's effect into granting DR 1/-.

Bye
Thanee

 

[roguerouge]

Actually, my DM's solution echoes 3rd edition's Toughness tree: You get 3+current Fort save in HP when you take the feat. So, a fighter at first level would get 5 hp, and at 6th would get 8 hp.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Actually, my DM's solution echoes 3rd edition's Toughness tree: You get 3+current Fort save in HP when you take the feat. So, a fighter at first level would get 5 hp, and at 6th would get 8 hp.

That's actually a pretty cool idea, I kind of like it (assuming you mean base fortitude save). Only real problem is it means certain classes most would consider "tough" don't benefit much from it. In particular, the Knight.

 

[Noumenon]

I don't know about the "purposely throwaway" idea, all I know is my first wizard took Toughness to stay alive through first level and it was a stupid waste. So I go with Tequila Sunrise's Toughness feat -- 2 hp + 1 hp/level. He has a lot of other awesome house rules there too.

 

[Delta]

Added an edit above: This line of inquiry is in the context of just the core rules (no supplement feats, Improved Toughness, PHB2 retraining, etc.)

My suggestions in the OP were for the entirety of the effect of Toughness (e.g. #1 -- +2hp/level; not 3 +2hp/level). I hadn't thought about stacking multiple selections before now.

 

[Herzog]

In that case, I think the 'fixed' toughness shouldn't be better than the Improved Toughness feat (which you presumably don't have access to)

I would simply change it to +1 per level (not higher).
The original Improved Toughness has a Fort minimum, but I guess you can skip that.
Also, allow it to be taken more than once.