Flanking with... yourself?

[Dr. Confoundo]

Last night we tried to find a rules passage, and for the life of us, we just couldn't find it. This is something that we could all swear that we've seen, somewhere in the rulebook, but when we tried to pin it down, it was nowhere to be found.

Can you flank with yourself? If you start on one side of a monster, and then either move or shift around to the other side of the monster (either taking the opportunity attacks, or avoiding them somehow), effectively set up flanking for yourself?

Is this in the 4E books, or are we remembering this rule from a previous version or alternate ruleset?

 

[Black Knight Irios]

Read PHB P285 Flanking: Opposite Sides.

 

[Dr. Confoundo]

Not exactly what I was looking for, but thanks... I understand the rules for flanking with an ally; it was the ability to flank someone by yourself that is in question.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

I thought that you would stop thinking you could flank by yourself after reading the paragraph.

First: You can't flank a creature alone, all by yourself!

But here we go:
You can flank a creature when you do what's written in said paragraph.

So if you stand left of the creature
Y = You; X = Creature; E = Empty squares

EYXE

and move around it to the right side

EEXY

are you standing on both sides (opposing sides) of the creature? No - so you can't flank a creature by yourself. Furthermore, you are never considered your own ally so that even makes your asumption worse.

 

[Lord Ernie]

Actually, that page quoted by BKI did provide the answer. Quoting directly from the PHB:

Opposite Sides: To flank an enemy, you and an ally must be adjacent to the enemy and on opposite sides or corners of the enemy’s space.

Does dancing around an enemy have you and an ally fill in this requirement? Not unless you're your own ally (not according to the rules), and you somehow manage to be in two places at once. So no, you can't flank with yourself (apart from the Swordmage's Glamor Blade sillyness... I want to play a swordmage just to use that power ).

 

[Orcus Porkus]

What comes to mind is this item:

Baldric of Tactical Positioning

This belt gives you greater command of the battlefield by helping

you keep your enemies off-balance.
Level: 8
Price: 3400 gp
Item Slot: Waist

Power (Encounter): Minor Action. Choose one square adjacent to you. That square counts as an ally for the purpose of flanking until the end of your next turn.

 

[Ryujin]

Not exactly what I was looking for, but thanks... I understand the rules for flanking with an ally; it was the ability to flank someone by yourself that is in question.

Swordmage ability Glamor Blade creates a duplicate of yourself that you can use for flanking purposes.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

What comes to mind is this item:

You can't flank a creature alone if you use this item:

X = Creature to be flanked; Y = You using the item; T = square chosen with item; E = Empty Squares

EEE
EXE
EYE
EEE

EEE
TXT
TYT
TTT

I have replaced all Es with Ts where you could place one. You can see, you can never flank a creature with this item alone, what you can do is, provide flanking opportunities for your allies. A = Ally:

AEE
EXE
EYT
EEE

 

[glass]

EEE
TXT
TYT
TTT

I have replaced all Es with Ts where you could place one. You can see, you can never flank a creature with this item alone

By my reading you can. If T is where you actually do place one:

EEE
TXE
EYE
EEE

Then if you shift:

EEE
TXY
EEE

...you (Y) and your designated space (T) on either side of the enemy (X).

I haven't played much 4e so I could have missed something, but ISTM you can do it.


glass.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

Yes you're right. I forgot that you can move to get into flanking position...sometimes you just miss something...and then you're flanked.