flat-footed flanking?

[Kodam]

Hi!

Seems that I can't find the proper rule: Do you flank if your ally on the other side is flat-footed?

Thanks in advance

Kodam

 

[Darklone]

Yupp, if he has Combat Reflexes, otherwise no.

 

[Tatsukun]

Why not? He still threatens the space, even if he is flat footed. I think you should unless there is a specific rule about it.

-Tatsu

 

[Li Shenron]

Why not? He still threatens the space, even if he is flat footed. I think you should unless there is a specific rule about it.

-Tatsu

It's easy to rules otherwise, but IIRC you are right. Flat-footed implies you cannot do AoOs but not that you don't threaten. To provide a flanking bonus requires that you threaten. Therefore to flat-footed does not prevent to provide a flanking bonus.

If this was deliberate by the author, or otherwise they themselves got confused between threatening and doing AoOs being the same thing or not, I cannot say.

 

[Thanee]

Threaten just means, that there is a threat present. Even a flat-footed fighter poses a threat, since he is there and will be able to strike every moment.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Darklone]

Threaten just means, that there is a threat present. Even a flat-footed fighter poses a threat, since he is there and will be able to strike every moment.

A flat-footed fighter poses a threat, but he threatens no area. Therefore you can't flank him if your buddy does not have Combat Reflexes.

Edit: Argh. The flat-footed description in the SRD only says you can't make AoOs, it does not say you don't threaten (anymore?).

Anyone got better quotes?

Edit again: Yeah, looks like you still threaten while flat-footed.

 

[Kodam]

Hi!

Thanks very much for your quick answers!

Kodam

 

[Thanee]

The above was merely meant as a sort of explanation why a flat-footed fighter doesn't have to lose his threatened area (which he doesn't, AFAIK).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Darklone]

The above was merely meant as a sort of explanation why a flat-footed fighter doesn't have to lose his threatened area (which he doesn't, AFAIK).

Yupp, you were right... but I didn't know that yet

I thought it would be more "simple" and straightforward.

 

[kwiqsilver]

On p314 of the PHB it defines threaten as "to be able to attack in melee without moving from your current space." So by that definition, it's threatened.

However, right below that for threatened square it says "Certain actions provoke an attack of opportunity when taken within a threatened square". If the guy cast a spell, the flat-footed character (assuming no Combat Reflexes) wouldn't get an AoO, so it's not a threatened square.

DM's discretion. If you think about it logically, flanking is really in the mind of the flanked character. Does he consider the two characters enough of a risk that he's dividing his attention between them? The flat footed character is a second or two away from being a threat, so I'd say he'd be dividing his attention.
If I was running the game, I'd call it flanking.