Flat Healing Without Using a Surge--Infinite Daily HP?

[Eldorian]

....and Sunburst, on first reading....... It....well... => it sucks. I want Healing Surges to be important all the way to 30th level. But now, at 27th level (with a cleric), they're completely irrelevant outside of combat.

It takes Sunburst to decide this? Look at the demigod. Also, read my post in general about the actual effectiveness of sunburst. 30 minutes to heal the fighter from half isn't really that amazing when you can rise from the dead mid fight.

 

[Mithyx]

It doesn't seem like a problem with the ability, but a problem with how you're using the encounter system. If you're going to treat every spider that crawls up to your party as an encounter, odd things are going to happen with the rules.

 

[Rystil Arden]

So, it's ok for a paladin to use waterboarding?

Seems like torture to me anyhow and I wouldn't allow it beyond the first use.

It is in 4e with an unaligned Paladin (esp with the new code that says you can never fall from Paladinhood, though your fellow church members may come after you). The 4e RAW is that unaligned deities have Paladins who must also be unaligned. These aren't the same Paladins we're all used to from older editions.

(I would agree that such torture violated the 3.5 Paladin's Code)

 

[Nail]

Also, read my post in general about the actual effectiveness of sunburst.

....and it's clear you haven't engaged completely with the problem in your post, so I didn't respond to it directly.

 

[Rystil Arden]

It doesn't seem like a problem with the ability, but a problem with how you're using the encounter system. If you're going to treat every spider that crawls up to your party as an encounter, odd things are going to happen with the rules.

Mithyx, no one except the people who are discounting Sunburst's healing are trying to use the example of 'every spider' or the like. Do remember, though, that in 4e you can use any per encounter power you like out of combat with a five minute cooldown.

 

[Henry]

Honestly, this is why DMs are still crucial to the game, and always will be. Treat any RPG like a full-world simulator, and you're bound to have broken exploits no matter what the rule system; but it still takes a DM to look at the player across the table with a wry smile, say, "cut out the antics, Joe", and get the game moving again.

 

[Rystil Arden]

....and it's clear you haven't engaged completely with the problem in your post, so I didn't respond to it directly.

Indeed, Eldorian, I think you missed my post on the bottom of last page.

By the way, Nail, thanks for speaking up. It's nice to know that other people agree with me that Healing Surges should be significant at Epic tier.

 

[Eldorian]

Those are both daily. Which is fine.

They are divorced from healing surges. Am I wrong? The allow very large amounts of healing.

You forgot the Healer's Lore ability.

You got me here. Sorry man.

So it's not a strawman because...other people who were arguing for the same position as you already used that strawman? Huh? Did I try to suggest gibbing peasants? Did anyone else who wasn't using it as a strawman or just referring to it off-hand as something not in 4e?

You stated that no one had mentioned anything like a peasant or a gopher to trigger the healing from attacks that require a hit. This is wrong. Hell man, you yourself said killing captured prisoners. That's in the same vein as peasants. More or less helpless enemies.


Anyways, I'm done here. Sorry about the miscount, though.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Honestly, this is why DMs are still crucial to the game, and always will be. Treat any RPG like a full-world simulator, and you're bound to have broken exploits no matter what the rule system; but it still takes a DM to look at the player across the table with a wry smile, say, "cut out the antics, Joe", and get the game moving again.

I know what you mean, Henry. But the thing is, I don't consider spamming Sunburst every five minutes to be antics. Indeed, if I took the power, that would be my expected use of it. I probably would just not take it because I voluntarily chose not to open that can of worms, but if I had it somehow (say with a pregen), that's how I'd use it. The strikes that hit enemies to heal allies less so, as I would never try to make claims that something is a significant threat, but with Sunburst, definitely.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Again a problem that is based on the assumption that the DM is a monkey cursed with donkey players.

If a PC ask me if he can use Sunburst to heal between fight, I just tell him no. If he needs fluff, I'll just point out that sunburts is a divine intercession on the charcter's behalf when he is in peril. The cleric is too respectful (or fearful) to ask such direct and powerful assistance when it's not required. If he throws a fit, I kick him out. The later never happened of course. Once in a blue moon, one of my players think up something silly like what is suggested in this thread but if he bothers suggesting it, the groans at the table from both me and the other players is enough to lay the matter to rest.