Flat Skills rolls - I hate them so I change them. Is this fair?

[JacktheRabbit]

There are some things I really do not like in Dnd 3.0

One of them is the flat skill check. I hate how tumble has a DC of 15 to avoid AOO no matter who the foe is. I also hate how Combat Casting has a flat DC of 15+ spell level to cast while threatened no matter who the foe is.

So this is how I changed them

Tumble - DC10 + BAB of foe whose threatened area you are tumbling through. If more than one foe threatens you at the same time then you add their BAB. If two foes threaten your tumble at two non-overlapping points then you make two tumble rolls.

Combat Casting - DC10 + spell level + BAB of all threatening foes.


Do these sound fair? A spellcaster in the party is complaining that this makes it too hard to cast spells in combat. Of course he was complaining when his actions resulted in him getting surrounded by three ogres whose reach allowed them all to threaten him.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I don't think changing the rules in unfair, but the specific changes I think are unfair. Adding the babs makes it virtually impossible to tumble or combat cast if more than one foe is facing you, and I don't think that is a good outcome. I'd either say highest bab or just do one check, and compare it against each BAB to see who it worked on and who it didn't.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Tumble is too easy. Once you have 10 ranks in it you never need to put another point in it.

Should a 6th level rogue with an 18 dex (possible tumble skill of 13) be able to tumble through the threat range of an ancient huge red dragon on a roll of 2 or higher?

The same goes for Casting in Combat. No wizard really ever worries about missing that roll unless they completely ignore that skill. A wizard should be charging into combat and throwing spells around while right in the face of 3 ogres who are aching to slice and dice him.

 

[Piratecat]

I don't think the overlapping BAB is fair.

An alternative in both cases may be to roll the check, and have the check act as the PCs AC against the AoO's that their action triggers. For instance, Dirk wants to tumble past an ogre. He rolls his tumble check - a 19! The ogre must hit AC 19 with its attack of opportunity as Dirk tumbles past him.

Same sort of thing with combat casting. Bargle casts a spell and gets a concentration check of 16. It isn't good, but it's better than his current AC of 14 vs. the AoO that his spellcasting triggers.

 

[Dougal DeKree]

oh...too late ;o)

[EDITED]

hehe, t'was just my two cents, but Piratecats handling is lots better than the one that sprang to my mind...

Dougal.

 

[Chacal]

just do one check, and compare it against each BAB to see who it worked on and who it didn't.

I would go for this one too.
For some reason, I'm more annoyed by tumble than combat casting.
Maybe because IME, the tumbler usually has many other options than tumbling, when the caster is supposed to be casting.

Chacal

 

[JacktheRabbit]

I don't think the overlapping BAB is fair.

An alternative in both cases may be to roll the check, and have the check act as the PCs AC against the AoO's that their action triggers. For instance, Dirk wants to tumble past an ogre. He rolls his tumble check - a 19! The ogre must hit AC 19 with its attack of opportunity as Dirk tumbles past him.

Same sort of thing with combat casting. Bargle casts a spell and gets a concentration check of 16. It isn't good, but it's better than his current AC of 14 vs. the AoO that his spellcasting triggers.

The problem I see is that attack bonuses rapidly outstrip most other things. It will quickly hit the point where no matter what you roll the attacker wont have much trouble hitting you. At every level you get to add +1. At every level the attacker gets to add (if he is a fighter) +1, possible feat bonuses, magic item bonuses, etc. Those bonuses will pass up the caster or tumblers bonus pretty quickly. Or at least I think they would.

 

[Piratecat]

Ah, but mobility would stack, as would combat casting's +4. We use the tumble variant already, and it seems to work pretty well. I mostly like that it's more effective against weaker opponents.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Ah, but mobility would stack, as would combat casting's +4. We use the tumble variant already, and it seems to work pretty well. I mostly like that it's more effective against weaker opponents.

Does anyone know if 3.5 will keep the flat skill checks?

 

[Tonguez]

I don't think the overlapping BAB is fair.

An alternative in both cases may be to roll the check, and have the check act as the PCs AC against the AoO's that their action triggers. For instance, Dirk wants to tumble past an ogre. He rolls his tumble check - a 19! The ogre must hit AC 19 with its attack of opportunity as Dirk tumbles past him.

Yep this is what I do too and it works great