Fleshshiver (PGtF) + Chain spell (T&B) = urrrgh ?

[Spatula]

As a fifth level spell, it's definitely overpowered. Compare with Power Word Stun, a 7th level spell that can stun for longer durations (depending on HP), but doesn't do damage and most importantly doesn't affect creatures that have more than a certain number of HP.

Effects that prevent a target from acting without allowing a save should be high level and/or be very limited in what they can affect. This spell is neither.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Equally compare with any thread pointing out how broken it is to give Balors blasphemy at will...

 

[Kalanyr]

Bleah, I've had someone want to Chain Destruction or Implosion, heck or even Slay Living, and you think Fleshshiver is bad ? That metamagic should seriously be limited to spells that have a primary damage function somehow. Doesn't sound like the spell itself is particularly balanced either. As to the comparison with Power Words: eh most of em are sufficiently underpowerd to at best be taken only in optimal circumstances.

Even PW:K is basically a spell that does 100 hp of damage if that would kill the targed and 0 if not, considering that a direct hit with meteor swarm averages about that much damage, bleah.

 

[Oscar carramiñana]

Yeah the Fleshshiver is great spell only for stunning round in encounter one BBG wiz or Sor with a rod or wand cast every round and the others kill the BBG

 

[The Souljourner]

Ok, people, stop using Chain spell as a reason why this spell is broken. Chain Spell is broken. Evaluate Fleshshiver on its own, or with core metamagic, not with 3.0 non-core crap that everyone knows is overpowered.

ALL the Power Word spells are pretty crappy. Don't compare the spell to crappy spells, that's not a valid comparison. The problem is that there really aren't any good 4th or 5th level damage/incapacitating spells.

I think that a 1st level spell which gives a Will save to negate 1 round of stunning proves that a 5th level spell giving one round of stunning with no save is fine. The fact that Heighten Spell can make a 1st level spell pretty much as good as this 5th level one, tells me it can't be that bad, because heighten spell sucks.

I seriously can't believe that being stunned for one round spells death in any reasonable campaign. I've been *held* for a few rounds before, and didn't even come that close to dying. If you have allies, they'll protect you until you're safe again... if you're all on your own.... you're an idiot. Seriously, I almost never see one single big bad guy with no minions any more. It's always the big guy and his half a dozen flunkies.

-The Souljourner

 

[Thanee]

The problem is that there really aren't any good 4th or 5th level damage/incapacitating spells.

Feeblemind, Dominate Person, Baleful Polymorph, Hold Monster, ...

no save = no good idea - even if it is 'only' one round of stun.

Any single powerful opponent not immune to it will probably die with no risk involved, if the party wizard has, say, three of those spells prepared.

It's the same reason, why Blasphemy is broken and Otto's Irresistible Dance is very close to being broken (altho it at least is a touch attack).

Incapacitation with no save is no good idea!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Darklone]

Color Spray is both an illusion and mind affecting, meaning a vast number of creatures are immune to it. It also only works if you can see the spray, meaning if you know to expect it you can just close your eyes and be immune.

Don't know how you handle that... I played under one DM where you could close and reopen your eyes as no action after you made your Spellcraft check to recognize the spell. That was silly. IMC, you'd have to ready to close and reopen your eyes. If you wanna do that, go ahead. Other possibility would be to close your eyes till your next action. Hope you're a half-dragon

And yes, any insta "death" spells without save are a must have for any spellcaster... e.g. too strong. And losing your action for one round is bad, losing it for more rounds is deadly in D&D.

 

[James McMurray]

Ok, people, stop using Chain spell as a reason why this spell is broken. Chain Spell is broken. Evaluate Fleshshiver on its own, or with core metamagic, not with 3.0 non-core crap that everyone knows is overpowered.

I did. Chain Spell is just the icing on the cake. Any spell that can ensure the BBEG's death (unless he's immune to stunning) is broken. All it needs is to have the save for half also negate the stunning (or give a second save for the stunning).

The fact that Heighten Spell can make a 1st level spell pretty much as good as this 5th level one, tells me it can't be that bad, because heighten spell sucks.

Que? No comprende. How is a heightened Color Spray anywhere near as good as this spell? It still allows a save, and it deals no damage.

I've been *held* for a few rounds before, and didn't even come that close to dying. If you have allies, they'll protect you until you're safe again... if you're all on your own.... you're an idiot. Seriously, I almost never see one single big bad guy with no minions any more. It's always the big guy and his half a dozen flunkies.

Then your DM pulled his punches. If someone is stunned or held in a battle they should go down and stay down as everyone focuses their attention on ensuring that the temporary incapacitation becomes a permanent one. This is especially true now that Hold Person allows a save every round. While it is your party's job to protect you, that isn't always possible.

Don't know how you handle that... I played under one DM where you could close and reopen your eyes as no action after you made your Spellcraft check to recognize the spell. That was silly. IMC, you'd have to ready to close and reopen your eyes. If you wanna do that, go ahead. Other possibility would be to close your eyes till your next action. Hope you're a half-dragon

I'd make the character close his eyes the whole time. IT wouldn't be an optimal solution to color spray, but it is an option. Fleshriver gives no options at all apart from being immune to stun, which is incredibly hard to do. Being a half-dragon won't help, they don't get Blindsight.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Then your DM pulled his punches. If someone is stunned or held in a battle they should go down and stay down as everyone focuses their attention on ensuring that the temporary incapacitation becomes a permanent one. This is especially true now that Hold Person allows a save every round. While it is your party's job to protect you, that isn't always possible.

Thankfully, my players don't metagame like that. In real life you'd never turn your back on an active threat to beat down a held/stunned/mezzed oppponent, because his friends would hack you down.

Besides which, what's the difference between everyone ganging up on him when he's not stunned? If you're going to ignore all threats to take him out anyway, the trivial AC difference (in most cases) and his lack of an action hardly changes things that much.

 

[Darklone]

I'd make the character close his eyes the whole time. IT wouldn't be an optimal solution to color spray, but it is an option. Fleshriver gives no options at all apart from being immune to stun, which is incredibly hard to do. Being a half-dragon won't help, they don't get Blindsight.

Dragon Disciple level 5? Duh

Yeah I think it's funny someone still thinks this spell is ok. Too long behind the DM screen, I guess.