D&D 4E Fluff that plays bad (and how to fix it in 4e)

[Jedi_Solo]

Alightment Restrcitions
Multiclassing Resrictions

Those are my big ones and have already been covered

My 2cp on the Monk; I don't see anything wrong with having someone that has trained themselves to fight unarmed and is devoted to physical and mental perfection. I see no reason they have to be from a far off land and have a shaved head though.

What I would want to see is the mental perfection aspect seporated from the unarmed portion (say... different talent trees - assuming we are getting those) so you can have the half-orc who speciallizes in smashing his opponents faces into the pavement using his bare hands without forcing the PC to contemplating his inner soul after dinner. I think this seporation of abilities will help alot.

There are many styles of martial arts and many stories that can be told with someone who prefers to use their fists instead of a sword. For each class WotC might be able to give a half-dozen examples. The Asian Monk is a perfectly valid example of a Martial Artist type character, just not the only one.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Regarding Asian classes, they should just be identical to standard classes, and hopefully the customization of abilities and revised multiclassing will enable you to emulate the archetype you are looking for.

Samurai= Fighter
Wu Jen = Wizard
Ninja = Rogue
Supernatural super ninja = rogue/warlock

etc.

Ya I'm always a fan of using as few classes as possible to represent character concepts.

I've been thinking of eventually creating 4e versions the 'generic classes' from unearthed arcana. But obviously thats highly speculative an way out in the future.

Possibly with 4e an OA style book will merely introduce samurai talents for fighters to take, wujen talents for wizards etc instead of making whole new classes.

 

[UndeadScottsman]

I'd like to see the description for Time Stop changed (if the spell is retained). I understand why the spell works like it does. (You can't affect anyone or do any effects that don't have a time limit; otherwise it'd be a horribly overpowered spell.)

But the fluff description provided totally shouldn't work like that. It says you don't fully stop or displace yourself from the time-stream; you just speed yourself up a whole lot to the point where everyone else seems to be stopped. In theory, you should be able to shoot like 5 fireballs and they'd hang in the air as soon as you shot them; ready to hit your opponent all at once when the time stop ends. Also, by that description, you should be able to cast any spell on an opponent, and they just wouldn't feel the effects of it until the Time Stop ended. You still casted a spell on them, it just affects them much faster than normal.

Again, this would be overpowered, which is why they didn't do it like that. But the spell description should be changed to make more sense with the spells actual effects.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

There are many styles of martial arts and many stories that can be told with someone who prefers to use their fists instead of a sword. For each class WotC might be able to give a half-dozen examples. The Asian Monk is a perfectly valid example of a Martial Artist type character, just not the only one.

Heck, the Fighter and Barbarian are martial artists, in that they practice the martial arts in the truest sense of the term...i.e. beating the snot out of people.

What I'd hope for the monk is for it to be more of the Mystic Martial Artist, like the Immaculates from Exalted. Who, notably, differ wildly from each other, and don't all eschew manufactured weapons and armor.

Brad

 

[Jer]

Thought of another one (maybe) -

The nonhuman "favored class" attribute. Is that flavor or rules? It seems to be as much flavor as alignment restrictions, so I'm going with flavor. And it tastes terrible to me. I'm okay with something that gives iconic class/race pairings a boost, but I hate punishing someone because he wants to do something interesting with a race/class multiclass combo - he's probably punishing himself enough by taking classes that aren't optimal for the ability score bonuses / penalties he gets as a member of that race anyway.

As far as the "monk" - I think that the monk fills an interesting niche in the game - the unarmed fighter - I think the name "monk" could be reconsidered, and there's no reason to make him a "foreign" character, but I like the idea of the unarmed fighter who may or may not draw their power from an internal mystical power reserve. The rest of the "asian flavored" classes I can give or take - it annoys me more that we can't model a Samurai as a Fighter or as a Paladin than it does that the Samurai is in the game at all.

(In my current campaign I've given the monks less of a "foreign" feel by making them members of a contemplative order of druids, with "ki" power drawing from local ley lines rather than the internal power of the monk himself. It works well in my campaign - if only I could find some miniatures for my monk player that didn't automatically assume "monk==asian flavor").

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

What I'd hope for the monk is for it to be more of the Mystic Martial Artist, like the Immaculates from Exalted. Who, notably, differ wildly from each other, and don't all eschew manufactured weapons and armor.

If there's a 4E Oriental Adventures, this is right at the top of my wish list. I'd want the monk class broken down into several different paths (probably with talent trees replacing PrCs) that range from "ordinary guy who can kick your ass" to "guy who races across the top of bamboo trees and then kicks your ass."

 

[MerricB]

Dwarves as presented in Races of Stone need to go.

Cheers!

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I vehemently disagree with "It's oriental, get it out of my PHB". I agree that the flavor could be tweaked. Monks don't have to be ascetic monastic martial artists; they can be government/organization operatives, acrobats, body guards, assassins, professional mageslayers, etc.

Just one problem. The writers of the PH are not familiar with Asian culture. I watch a lot of anime, and the samurai characters who often appear usually aren't depicted accurately either (in that they don't match the behavior of real-life samurai in well-researched history books; samurai were human beings and formed about one seventh of Japan's population so simple logic tells you they couldn't all be stupid super-loyal ambidextrous katana fetishists). Some seem determined to create new stereotypes (Flame of Recca, I'm looking at you).

I think they should leave the Asian flavor out... or hire someone familiar with Asian historical culture to write the flavor text.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Dwarves as presented in Races of Stone need to go.

Cheers!

I don't have Races of Stone, what do they do to Dwarves there?

On-topic, everything I'd like to see go has been mentioned already by the smart people in this thread, bardic music, alignment/multiclassing restrictions (let us work that out, dammit), "druids hate metal!", OA classes in the corebooks, monks as well, shaolin monks, and so on.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

One of the big things that I'd like to see is the removal of all of the Asian flavored classes and put them in their own book. I'd say that the majority of the people that play D&D aren't familiar with Asian culture and thus have no interest in having these classes in the core rules.

I'm with you. Stick 'em all in OA. Ditching the monk was something 2E got right.


Other fluff: barbarian should be a berzerker fighter, not a cultural choice (and the manadatory illiteracy should be dropped).

I'd like to see halflings as hobbits and bearded dwarven women, but that's another thread ...

Kobolds should stay draconic and not revert to being dog-men.

Elves and dragons should not copulate with anything with a heartbeat.

Clerics should be militant crusaders for their gods, and not priests (which means there should be a better way of portraying an actual priest).

Neutral should be written to deliberately avoid "pathologically devoting to wronging rights and righting wrongs to maintain balance" (yes, that's now how Neutral is written, but that's how it ofetn gets played).

"Defender/protector of nature" does not have to equal "ecoterrorist" or "Luddite".