"Flurry" Enhancement

[Jeph]

In Oriental Adventures, there is a specific weapon called the Serpent's Tooth. It's enhancements are +2 and Initiative, and it grants the ability to let the user use it for a Flurry of Blows, making one extra attack with the Serpent's Tooth at the character's highest attack bonus but suffering a -2 penalty to all attacks in the round. The cost of the item is 38,302 gp: 8,000 for the +2 enhancement, 20,000 for the Initiative enhancement, 300 for Masterwork, 2 for the weapon it's self, and 10,000 left over for the Flurry.

Now, this could mean two things: the Flurry ability is worth a +1 bonus, or it is worth 10,000 GP. It is impossible to tell which as they would work out to the exact same cost for this specific weapon. I'm thinking about allowing the Flurry enhancement into my campaign, but don't know which price to use (+1 bonus or +10,000 gp) (although I'm leaning towards +10,000).

Thoughts?

Thanks,
--Jeff

 

[CRGreathouse]

Actually, I lean toward +1 -- 10,000 gp is expensive on low levels (compared to +1), but the ability isn't that good then; 10,000 gp is inexpensive on high levels (compared to +1), and that's when it's best.

 

[Ferret]

I believe the enchantment your looking for is "Speed" at +4

 

[Spatzimaus]

I'm thinking about allowing the Flurry enhancement into my campaign, but don't know which price to use (+1 bonus or +10,000 gp) (although I'm leaning towards +10,000).

Well, in straight D&D there aren't any weapon enchantments that have a flat price, and pre-3.5E there weren't any flat-price armor bonuses, so the answer would have been "+1". But, you can think of it as a sword plus a slotless wondrous item that gives Flurry of Blows, with the limitation that it only applies to attacks with a specific weapon. In that context, 10k is more reasonable, if a bit underpriced.

The problem with this is, 10k just isn't a lot at the highest levels, so if you make it be an enchantment anyone can get, EVERY weapon will have it. The "+1" style of pricing makes the cost significant at all levels, but it also makes it cost far more than 10k at near-Epic levels. Going from a +9 to +10 costs 38k, after all.

I'd say make it cost more like 20k, and just note that the Serpent's Tooth has the ability at a discount (or say that any weapon that gives both Initiative and Flurry gets both for 30k instead of 40 since they're thematically similar). That way, it's not something you see in a low-level weapon (+1 Flurry longsword), but it's still a significant amount of money.

 

[Jeph]

I believe the enchantment your looking for is "Speed" at +4

Nonono. Oriental Adventures, page 128.

I'd say make it cost more like 20k, and just note that the Serpent's Tooth has the ability at a discount (or say that any weapon that gives both Initiative and Flurry gets both for 30k instead of 40 since they're thematically similar).

Hmm. Would you reccomend that all Flurry Initiative weapon have a 10k discount?

 

[Geoff Watson]

It's the same as Speed with a -2 to hit.

I'd say +3 (the -2 to hit more or less balances the one fewer +).

So they undervalued an item. It's not the first item they've got the wrong price for.

Geoff.

 

[hong]

It's the same as Speed with a -2 to hit.

I'd say +3 (the -2 to hit more or less balances the one fewer +).

So they undervalued an item. It's not the first item they've got the wrong price for.

Geoff.

Actually, speed in 3.5E is +3. This is probably a fair price, since now it's explicit that it only works on a full attack. This in turn would make the flurry enchantment +2.

 

[Jeph]

It's the same as Speed with a -2 to hit.

I'd say +3 (the -2 to hit more or less balances the one fewer +).

There's one HUGE difference between Speed and Flurry though: You get the extra swing with Speed without having to take a full attack action. (EDIT: Well, not in 3.5, I guess.) +2 is looking good, right now.

So they undervalued an item. It's not the first item they've got the wrong price for.

Nor the last...

Geoff.

You stole my name, dammit.
--Jeff.

 

[Geoff Watson]

There's one HUGE difference between Speed and Flurry though: You get the extra swing with Speed without having to take a full attack action. (EDIT: Well, not in 3.5, I guess.) +2 is looking good, right now.

--Jeff.

You didn't get the extra swing with Speed on a normal attack. It just says you get an extra attack, and the way to use multiple attacks is with a full attack.

Geoff.

 

[Ferret]

Whoops, the thing looks cool. -2 balances it out.