Fly + Exp. Retreat = ?

[kengar]

Subject says it all, really. Can a caster double their flying speed from the Fly spell by using the Expeditious Retreat spell?

Here's the text from ER:

The character's speed and maximum jumping distances both double. These benefits count as enhancement bonuses.

And here is Fly:

The spell’s subject can fly with a speed of 90 feet (60 feet if the creature wears medium or heavy armor). The subject can fly up at half speed and descend at double speed. The flying subject’s maneuverability rating is good. Using the fly spell requires as much concentration as walking, so the subject can attack or cast spells normally. The subject of a fly spell can charge but not run, and it cannot carry aloft more weight than its maximum load (see page 142), plus any armor it wears.

Should the spell duration expire while the subject is still aloft, the magic fails slowly. The subject drops 60 feet per round for 1d6 rounds. If it reaches the ground in that amount of time, it lands safely. If not, it falls the rest of the distance. Since dispelling a spell effectively ends it, the subject also falls in this way if the fly spell is dispelled.

I saw nothing in WOTC's FAQ on this. The way I see it, the question is either:

A) since the "Flying Speed" given by Fly is a fixed rate, is it affected by enhancement bonuses?

and/or

B) Since the flying speed you get from Fly is not your own "personal" speed but a spell effect, does ER affect it?



...two ways of asking the same thing, I guess.

 

[Xeoble]

Expeditious Retreat doubles any non-magical or non-supernatural speed. It would not double your fly speed.

Just like boots of striding and springing can only bring a 20th level monk's speed to 100 (50 base non-supernatural * 2)

 

[Ferox4]

Expeditious Retreat doubles any non-magical or non-supernatural speed. It would not double your fly speed.

Just like boots of striding and springing can only bring a 20th level monk's speed to 100 (50 base non-supernatural * 2)

What he said

 

[kengar]

Sounds good. Is there anywhere in the SRD or the books that makes the whole "non-supernatural" clarification? It would help curtail any debate over the ruling if I had an "official" reference.

 

[Simulacrum]

I hope that in 3.5 any * multiplier things are gone forever.
That is just stupid. The game is based upon bonuses and plused + so it should stick to that. multipliers are UNBALANCING.
same with criticals etc. you should get additional dice to throw, but why does just everything * go multiplied (exept sneak).
That was what bugged me from the start.
I mean you hit with your weapon where it hurt...ok but why does the strength * multiply?? You are beating him up with the same force so that makes no real sense.
Ok maybe this is essential for fighters but for anything spell related multipliers should be gone for ever *

 

[Golandrinel]

This sort of thing doesn't stack. The most favourable for the PC would win out in any given situation. When jumping you are not flying, a concious effort of control would have to be made to fly, at which time the fly spells characteristics would take over.

 

[RigaMortus]

I have yet to find anything which states only non-supernatural or non-magical movement is the only movement that is doubled with ER.

 

[Jemal]

I agree with Riga Mortus..
In fact there was a Power Play in a Dragon magazine that showed a Mnk19/Brb1 with the Run feat and boots of Striding+springing who could go 1000' per round.

 

[SylverFlame]

For Simulacrum

With multipliers I'm in the "out jury" but as far as Simulacrum is asking for multipliers on criticals (especially with strength), here's how I see it.

When you get a critical then the multiplier is essentially how many times you hit. In the case of a sword I see it as the initial slash and then catching the target again on the back swing. Also, you hit a little harder and A LOT faster than normal. This increased speed explains why certain magical effects don't affect the creature more than once (in my mind I see them as being on a slight delay system.

Anyhoo, this was OT, so sorry for that.

 

[Xeoble]

Ok, i don't think i've ever read the "expeditious retreat only doubles non-supernatural speed" anywhere, i was going on what i'd come to understand as the rule.

If someone knows what page of what rulebook says that supernatural speed cannot be doubled by spells, please post it so that i can take a look.