Fly + Exp. Retreat = ?

[Xeoble]

Ok, i just looked at the spell description....

----------
Expeditious Retreat
Transmutation
Level: Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 1, Travel 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 minute/level (D)
Expeditious retreat provides you with
amazing fleetness of foot, enabling you to
run in great leaps and bounds. Your speed
and maximum jumping distances both
double (see the Jump skill, page 70). These
benefits count as enhancement bonuses.
This spell can be used for attack as well
as for flight; the name of the spell hints at
the typical wizard’s attitude toward
combat.
----------

My interpretation of this is that it does double a monk's speed because nowhere have i read that supernatural abilites can't be modified by enhancement bonuses

The other thing that is sort of ambiguous is the "can be used for attack as well as flight"...at first glance this seemed to be able to stack with fly but then i saw that it was talking about running away...

About doubling fly speed...it looks like it would, because Fly gives you a speed of 90 and expeditious retreat doubles speed as an enhancement bonus

 

[RigaMortus]

I'd like to know too, as a lot of people have made this type of statement in the past. Just as a lot of people think losing your Dex bonus means you can't make an AoO (actually, my group plays this way and I agree to the rule, but I do not think it is "official").

 

[Simulacrum]

Re: For Simulacrum

With multipliers I'm in the "out jury" but as far as Simulacrum is asking for multipliers on criticals (especially with strength), here's how I see it.

When you get a critical then the multiplier is essentially how many times you hit. In the case of a sword I see it as the initial slash and then catching the target again on the back swing. Also, you hit a little harder and A LOT faster than normal. This increased speed explains why certain magical effects don't affect the creature more than once (in my mind I see them as being on a slight delay system.

Anyhoo, this was OT, so sorry for that.

I see your point, I didnt think about it that way yet...sounds as if it would be a good explanation. Ok if this is a possibility (after the rules nothing contradicts this) then keep the multiplier.
It's still a bit unclear still, because it would mean that a blinking/invis rogue would add his sneak too the critical hit or wouldnt he?

 

[Dash Dannigan]

----------
This spell can be used for attack as well
as for flight; the name of the spell hints at
the typical wizard’s attitude toward
combat.
----------

"Flight" as mentioned here is a poorly chosen term for the wording of this spell. It means flight as in running away and not actually an ability to fly. So Expeditious retreat has no effect what so ever on your Fly speed (as it IS a fixed speed according to the spell).

As for the monk's supernatural speed, many folk see this as a magical enhancement granted by the monk class and that the spell enhancement should not also multiply the supernatural enhancement. Instead a monk's normal speed is multiplied by the spell and then the supernatural enhancement is added to this. This keeps the movement in-game (and the DM I must add) sane while still providing ways to boost speed. I don't really know many others who would play it any other way.

Read DMG p. 177, "Behind the Curtain: Stacking bonuses", that's exactly what they recommend you to do as far as applying stacking restrictions.

 

[SylverFlame]

Simulacrum

The way I explain a rogue (or anyother) char with sneak attack on a critical hit is that after the initial attack things are happening too quick for the char to go for the vital locations. THey just keep hacking away.

The only thing I can't explain is magical bonuses like "bane". I want to work it all into the same idea but other than the slight delay on the magic recharging, I'm at a loss. Even that delay doesn't satisfy me though...

 

[Xeoble]

Also, looking over the spell, it says "amazing fleetness of foot" so fly would not be enhanced

Dash, I see your point about a monk's speed, but it is a supernatural ability and not an "enhancement", therefore, according to the D&D mechanic it should be multiplied...of course, this is all subject to DM approval as such.