D&D 5E Flying, Teleportation, Unwilling Mounts, and Falling - how would you rule?

[koga305]

Recently in my high-level game (15th level) the subjects of flying and teleportation have come up quite often. This has led to a number of situations and rules calls that the books only give sketchy guidance for. I'm really curious to see how you all would handle these situations.

Here are the characters involved and their relevant abilities*:

• Vel'Krathis, a tiefling Paladin (6)/Warlock (9) with a magic sword and the misty step and dimension door spells.
• Ashryn, a half-elf Monk of the Four Elements (15) who can cast fly with her ki points and use slow fall as a reaction.
• Ghravos, an elven Tempest Cleric (15). Though he can neither fly nor teleport, he can castcontrol winds as a domain spell.

Here are some of the situations that have come up*:

1. In a pitched battle with hundreds of troops on both sides, two young red dragons circle above, providing guidance and occasional support to the undead side of the battle. Currently, they are out of range for even Vel'Krathis's extended eldritch blast - but not his trusty dimension door spell. He casts the spell, attempting to teleport on top of one of the dragons so he can attack it. Mechanically, what happens?
2. Through astounding feats of heroism, Vel'Krathis slays one of the dragons in midair, while atopt it. As he deals the final blow, with his first attack, he realizes the other dragon is within range of his misty step, which he casts as a bonus action. Can he attack the second dragon with his second attack, and if so, is it possible for him to stay astride it?
3. Vel'Krathis somehow slays the second dragon (on his turn), but he is out of spell slots and seems doomed to fall four hundred feet along with the dead dragon. Luckily, his friend Ghravos is watching from below and wants to cast control winds on his own turn to slow his friend's fall. Can he do it?
4. In a later battle, Vel'Krathis uses the dimension door tactic again to get on top of a wyvern in midair. He is able to climb aboard the creature using whatever mechanics you prefer. However, this time the creature has a rider (a wight gladiator, in this case), who attempts to remove him from the wyvern. How does this work mechanically?
5. Having wrestled the wight off of the wyvern, Vel'Krathis now faces a battle with the creature itself. The wyvern would like to shake Vel'Krathis off if it can; it would also like to attack the tiefling with its bite and stinger attacks. What can it do on its turn?
6. The wyvern is somehow able to remove Vel'Krathis from his back, seemingly dooming him to a hundred-foot fall. Luckily, his friend Ashryn is flying nearby and does her best to catch him before he falls to the ground. How is this resolved?
7. Ashryn is able to catch Vel'Krathis and prevents him from hitting the ground. Before landing, however, she is hit by an attack from the wyvern at 80 feet up and loses concentration on fly. Being a monk, she naturally takes advantage of her Slow Fall ability. Does this help Vel'Krathis?
8. Having failed to learn his lesson, Vel'Krathis tries the "dimension door-and-ride" tactic against the ancient red dracolich he goes up against next. This proves to be ineffective and he is knocked unconscious, with two failed death saving throws, before being throw from the dragon's back a hundred feet up. Ashryn is on the ground without her fly spell active. She wants to cast fly and catch Vel'Krathis's body on her turn before he hits the ground and dies. Is this possible, and if so, how is it resolved?

*Some of these situations have been modified from their original version. They have been formatted to fit your screen.

Please let me know what you think! I haven't posted my own ("in the moment") rules resolutions so as not to color your answers, but you can probably infer some of them anyway.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Recently in my high-level game (15th level) the subjects of flying and teleportation have come up quite often. This has led to a number of situations and rules calls that the books only give sketchy guidance for. I'm really curious to see how you all would handle these situations.

Here are the characters involved and their relevant abilities*:

• Vel'Krathis, a tiefling Paladin (6)/Warlock (9) with a magic sword and the misty step and dimension door spells.
• Ashryn, a half-elf Monk of the Four Elements (15) who can cast fly with her ki points and use slow fall as a reaction.
• Ghravos, an elven Tempest Cleric (15). Though he can neither fly nor teleport, he can castcontrol winds as a domain spell.

Here are some of the situations that have come up*:

1. In a pitched battle with hundreds of troops on both sides, two young red dragons circle above, providing guidance and occasional support to the undead side of the battle. Currently, they are out of range for even Vel'Krathis's extended eldritch blast - but not his trusty dimension door spell. He casts the spell, attempting to teleport on top of one of the dragons so he can attack it. Mechanically, what happens?
2. Through astounding feats of heroism, Vel'Krathis slays one of the dragons in midair, while atopt it. As he deals the final blow, with his first attack, he realizes the other dragon is within range of his misty step, which he casts as a bonus action. Can he attack the second dragon with his second attack, and if so, is it possible for him to stay astride it?
3. Vel'Krathis somehow slays the second dragon (on his turn), but he is out of spell slots and seems doomed to fall four hundred feet along with the dead dragon. Luckily, his friend Ghravos is watching from below and wants to cast control winds on his own turn to slow his friend's fall. Can he do it?
4. In a later battle, Vel'Krathis uses the dimension door tactic again to get on top of a wyvern in midair. He is able to climb aboard the creature using whatever mechanics you prefer. However, this time the creature has a rider (a wight gladiator, in this case), who attempts t. How does this work mechanically?
5. Having wrestled the wight off of the wyvern, Vel'Krathis now faces a battle with the creature itself. The wyvern would like to shake Vel'Krathis off if it can; it would also like to attack the tiefling with its bite and stinger attacks. What can it do on its turn?
6. The wyvern is somehow able to remove Vel'Krathis from his back, seemingly dooming him to a hundred-foot fall. Luckily, his friend Ashryn is flying nearby and does her best to catch him before he falls to the ground. How is this resolved?
7. Ashryn is able to catch Vel'Krathis and prevents him from hitting the ground. Before landing, however, she is hit by an attack from the wyvern at 80 feet up and loses concentration on fly. Being a monk, she naturally takes advantage of her Slow Fall ability. Does this help Vel'Krathis?
8. Having failed to learn his lesson, Vel'Krathis tries the "dimension door-and-ride" tactic against the ancient red dracolich he goes up against next. This proves to be ineffective and he is knocked unconscious, with two failed death saving throws, before being throw from the dragon's back a hundred feet up. Ashryn is on the ground without her fly spell active. She wants to cast fly and catch Vel'Krathis's body on her turn before he hits the ground and dies. Is this possible, and if so, how is it resolved?

*Some of these situations have been modified from their original version. They have been formatted to fit your screen.

Please let me know what you think! I haven't posted my own ("in the moment") rules resolutions so as not to color your answers, but you can probably infer some of them anyway.

1) Up to the DM of course, but if your want something official you could use the Climb Onto A Bigger Creature rules on DMG 271. Since teleportation takes care of the "jumping on the creature" part, I'd just ask for a Athletics/Acrobatics check contested by the dragon's Acrobatics to hang on to the dragon.

2) Yes, I believe it is legal for him to "interrupt" his attacks to cast Misty Step. As to whether he can stay astride, see my answer to 1.

3) Assuming that Vel hasn't hit the ground by the time Ghravos goes (it takes about 5 seconds to fall 400 feet), I see no reason why not. The updraft option of the spell seems designed for this sort of situation. Keep in mind, however, that Vel will still take half damage from the fall (1/2 of 20d6).

4) Your question is cut off. I'm guessing you were saying the rider attempts to knock Vel off? In that case I'd use the rules from the aforementioned section of the DMG. Depending on how the rider is trying to knock Vel off, either the wyvern or the rider would make an Athletics/Acrobatics check opposed by Vel's.

5) Per the aforementioned section, knocking someone off you is an action, so unless the wyvern somehow can take 2 actions it can't both attempt to knock Vel off and also attack someone else.

6) DM's call. It only takes about 2.5 seconds to fall 100 feet, so unless she is adjacent to him when he falls or has super speed I'd say they're both out of luck. If she does meet one of those conditions then I'd let her use her reaction to make a Dexterity ability check to catch him in time (this is assuming she's strong enough to carry his weight of course).

7) DM's call. I might go with allowing it to work on both of them at half efficacy (for every monk level she has reduce falling damage by 2.5). If the campaign was particularly cinematic in a wuxia sense, I'd just let them both fully benefit.

8) DM's call, but given that she has 2.5 seconds to catch him before he hits the ground I'd say probably not. I might allow her a check if her turn is immediately after, and she can quicken fly (or something similar). Even in that case he'd most likely fall some distance before she catches him, meaning that they'd both take some damage (and with his 2 deaths saves, means that he dies). As I see it, he's most likely going to need resurrection magic. Someone in the party probably ought to learn feather fall...

 

[koga305]

Thanks for responding, [MENTION=53980]Fanaelialae[/MENTION]! In general your answers all make sense and are well considered. I didn't have the Climb Onto A Bigger Creature rules in mind when I was running things in game but they seem to be a good fit here.

1) Up to the DM of course, but if your want something official you could use the Climb Onto A Bigger Creature rules on DMG 271. Since teleportation takes care of the "jumping on the creature" part, I'd just ask for a Athletics/Acrobatics check contested by the dragon's Acrobatics to hang on to the dragon.

Since casting dimension door requires an action, as does climbing onto a larger creature, would you allow those two to be combined in the same turn?

3) Assuming that Vel hasn't hit the ground by the time Ghravos goes (it takes about 5 seconds to fall 400 feet), I see no reason why not. The updraft option of the spell seems designed for this sort of situation. Keep in mind, however, that Vel will still take half damage from the fall (1/2 of 20d6).

I agree that Control Winds is a good spell for the job. I'm curious, though, about when you would have Vel hit the ground. Does it matter where Ghravos is in the initiative order?

4) Your question is cut off. I'm guessing you were saying the rider attempts to knock Vel off? In that case I'd use the rules from the aforementioned section of the DMG. Depending on how the rider is trying to knock Vel off, either the wyvern or the rider would make an Athletics/Acrobatics check opposed by Vel's.

Yes, it was cut off (whoops!), but you interpreted my intent correctly. Answer makes sense.

6) DM's call. It only takes about 2.5 seconds to fall 100 feet, so unless she is adjacent to him when he falls or has super speed I'd say they're both out of luck. If she does meet one of those conditions then I'd let her use her reaction to make a Dexterity ability check to catch him in time (this is assuming she's strong enough to carry his weight of course).

As a monk, Ashryn can Dash as a bonus action and her speed from the Fly spell is 60 ft. Obviously it varies by DM, but would you say that qualifies as "super speed?"

8) DM's call, but given that she has 2.5 seconds to catch him before he hits the ground I'd say probably not. I might allow her a check if her turn is immediately after, and she can quicken fly (or something similar). Even in that case he'd most likely fall some distance before she catches him, meaning that they'd both take some damage (and with his 2 deaths saves, means that he dies). As I see it, he's most likely going to need resurrection magic. Someone in the party probably ought to learn feather fall...

For what it's worth, Vel'Krathis did end up needing a revivify immediately afterwards.

One thing I'm noticing is that Climb Onto a Bigger Creature seems to reward this sort of tactic quite a bit. In particular, since it takes a creature's entire action to knock its unwilling rider off, it either shuts down the climbed creature for a round or gives continual advantage (and possible protection from attacks) at the cost of an action. Similar to grappling I guess.

 

[ccs]

In general the answer to your questions would result in "Yes" in a game I run.
There might be some Dex/Str saves, inititive rolls, or such, but you could definitely try these things knowing that there was a chance to very good chance of success.
Because the cooler the things you try & do in my game....

 

[Fanaelialae]

Thanks for responding, [MENTION=53980]Fanaelialae[/MENTION]! In general your answers all make sense and are well considered. I didn't have the Climb Onto A Bigger Creature rules in mind when I was running things in game but they seem to be a good fit here.

Since casting dimension door requires an action, as does climbing onto a larger creature, would you allow those two to be combined in the same turn?

I would rule that casting dimension door replaces the action to climb onto the creature. However, the character would still need to make the check to hang on to the creature (I wouldn't grant that automatically).

I agree that Control Winds is a good spell for the job. I'm curious, though, about when you would have Vel hit the ground. Does it matter where Ghravos is in the initiative order?

Given that the fall takes 5 sec, a round is 6 seconds long, and Vel presumably didn't fall at the very start of the round (given that he cast a spell and made two attacks) I would allow it at any point in the same round. Maybe even at the top of the next round if I'm feeling generous.

Don't get me wrong, in more typical cases of falling where no one intervenes I just resolve it immediately since that's easier. But if someone wants to interrupt the fall, they may have some leeway to act depending on how long google says a fall from that height takes.

Yes, it was cut off (whoops!), but you interpreted my intent correctly. Answer makes sense.

As a monk, Ashryn can Dash as a bonus action and her speed from the Fly spell is 60 ft. Obviously it varies by DM, but would you say that qualifies as "super speed?"

Yeah, if she activates her bonus Dash then I'd probably let her make a check. It's not really super speed, but I'd rather err on the side of being too generous than too stingy with my rulings (more fun that way IME). It would depend on her relative starting position to him though (probably no more separation than 15 feet, although possibly more if she is closer to the ground than he is). Since it's a race between her and the merciless grip of gravity, we'd also roll how far Vel falls before she is able to catch him. Since in this scenario we have a very convenient 100 feet, and we know if she catches him he doesn't hit the ground, I'd roll a 1d10 and multiply the result by 10 feet (rolling a zero would count as falling less than 10 feet). They would then divide the damage for falling that distance between them evenly. Less, if she has distance left to slow their descent gradually. It's very much a case-by-case basis from my perspective. If her Dex check is particularly good, I'd take the more favorable roll from 2d10.

For what it's worth, Vel'Krathis did end up needing a revivify immediately afterwards.

One thing I'm noticing is that Climb Onto a Bigger Creature seems to reward this sort of tactic quite a bit. In particular, since it takes a creature's entire action to knock its unwilling rider off, it either shuts down the climbed creature for a round or gives continual advantage (and possible protection from attacks) at the cost of an action. Similar to grappling I guess.

True. In fairness, the stakes will often be much higher in the case of COaBC, since if you fail your check you're potentially in for a long fall.

 

[jaelis]

[*]In a pitched battle with hundreds of troops on both sides, two young red dragons circle above, providing guidance and occasional support to the undead side of the battle. Currently, they are out of range for even Vel'Krathis's extended eldritch blast - but not his trusty dimension door spell. He casts the spell, attempting to teleport on top of one of the dragons so he can attack it. Mechanically, what happens?

See the DMG pg 271, Climbing onto a Bigger Creature.

[*]Through astounding feats of heroism, Vel'Krathis slays one of the dragons in midair, while atopt it. As he deals the final blow, with his first attack, he realizes the other dragon is within range of his misty step, which he casts as a bonus action. Can he attack the second dragon with his second attack, and if so, is it possible for him to stay astride it?

Sure you can move and use bonus actions between your attacks. Again I'd use the Climbing onto a Creature rules.

[*]Vel'Krathis somehow slays the second dragon (on his turn), but he is out of spell slots and seems doomed to fall four hundred feet along with the dead dragon. Luckily, his friend Ghravos is watching from below and wants to cast control winds on his own turn to slow his friend's fall. Can he do it?

I guess that I'd rule the fall happens on the dragons turn, so if Ghravos goes before the dragon, then sure.

[*]In a later battle, Vel'Krathis uses the dimension door tactic again to get on top of a wyvern in midair. He is able to climb aboard the creature using whatever mechanics you prefer. However, this time the creature has a rider (a wight gladiator, in this case), who attempts to remove him from the wyvern. How does this work mechanically?

Use shove attacks.

[*]Having wrestled the wight off of the wyvern, Vel'Krathis now faces a battle with the creature itself. The wyvern would like to shake Vel'Krathis off if it can; it would also like to attack the tiefling with its bite and stinger attacks. What can it do on its turn?

Also covered in the DMG.

[*]The wyvern is somehow able to remove Vel'Krathis from his back, seemingly dooming him to a hundred-foot fall. Luckily, his friend Ashryn is flying nearby and does her best to catch him before he falls to the ground. How is this resolved?

I'd say this fall happens on the wyvern's turn, so unless Ashryn has a reaction abiltiy, VelKy will fall.

[*]Ashryn is able to catch Vel'Krathis and prevents him from hitting the ground. Before landing, however, she is hit by an attack from the wyvern at 80 feet up and loses concentration on fly. Being a monk, she naturally takes advantage of her Slow Fall ability. Does this help Vel'Krathis?

I'd let this work, but if you think the Slow Fall ability really represents a mundane ability to hit the ground hard but not get hurt as much, then you might not. Based on the name, I'd say this actually causes you to fall slower which would help anyone you are carrying.

[*]Having failed to learn his lesson, Vel'Krathis tries the "dimension door-and-ride" tactic against the ancient red dracolich he goes up against next. This proves to be ineffective and he is knocked unconscious, with two failed death saving throws, before being throw from the dragon's back a hundred feet up. Ashryn is on the ground without her fly spell active. She wants to cast fly and catch Vel'Krathis's body on her turn before he hits the ground and dies. Is this possible, and if so, how is it resolved?

I wouldn't say it is possible, since she can't cast fly on another creatures turn. Unless, perhaps, she has readied an action to do so.