Flying vs Armour vs Encumbrance

[Beretta]

Hi all,

In a future campaign I wanted to open up the options with regards to available races. This could mean the possibility of PC's with wings, and thus the ability to fly.

However, in trying to nail down the specific rules in advance with regards to flying in armour or in a heavy load, I have come across several contradictory rulings and was hoping that somebody might be able to make more sense of it than I can.

I understand that the Core rules trump any other but there are still some inconsistencies that I would like to iron out. Here goes:

1./ In the MM, under Movement Modes (flying) p312, it says that: "a creature with a fly speed may move through the air at the indicated speed if carrying no more than a light load (note that medium armour does not necessarily constitute a medium load).

2./ In the PHB, under Barding, it says: "Flying mounts can't fly in medium or heavy barding."

3./ In Races of Faerun, an Avariel (winged elf) can fly 50ft (average maneuverability) "as long as they do not carry more than a medium load, are not wearing heavy armour, and are not fatigued or exhausted.

4./ Again in Races of Faerun, there is a feat called Outsider Wings, which states that they "allow you to fly at your land speed (average maneuverabilty). A medium or heavy load that would reduce your land speed reduces your flying speed by a proportionate amount."

So to deal with the 1./ and 2./, Armour and Barding are two distinctly different animals. A Griffon or Pegasus can fly only if carrying a light load and in light barding, while a harpy, gargoyle or lillend may fly whilst wearing medium or heavy armour so long as they are carrying a light load (I take the "medium armour does not necessarily constitute a medium load" to logically extend to heavy armour as well, as both reduce movement speed by the same amount and it isn't specifically excluded).

The armour vs barding seems to be a strange distinction. Why can't flying mounts follow the same rule as flying humanoids? Both creatures have wings, both are wearing armour, yet barding is somehow more 'inhibiting'? This is strange since flying mounts tend to have a higher Strength which offsets, to a large extent, the fact that the barding weighs twice as much for Large creatures (which they usually are).

With respect to 3./ and 4./, it would appear that Half-Celestials fly twice their base speed whilst wearing any armour - so long as they are carrying a light load. Yet Avariels, who don't get a +4 bonus to Strength, can fly carrying a medium load yet can't do so in heavy armour. Lastly, Aasimar or Tieflings with the Outsider Wings feat can fly at their base speed, in any armour, carrying any load. What the...?

It appears tha 1./, 3./, and 4./ are in conflict.

I guess what I am futiley seeking is some consistent element, but the rules seem to be all over the shop. Now, with any luck the players will be put off by the Level Adjustments for Half-Celestials and Aasimar/Tieflings, but just for my own peace of mind I would like to know whether I should lump them all together under one specific rule for flying humanoids, or else run them as all being different?

Thanks for your help!

 

[AGGEMAM]

Though it might appear so there is no real inconsistencies here.

The PHB talks about a flying mount. That means a creature that is already carrying a person.

And the MM talks a creature that flies. Now if that creature were ridden by another creature then it would be a flying mount.

 

[CombatWombat51]

For all those inconsistancies, I just ignored them and threw out my own rule. Basically, creatures that have a natural fly speed can't fly if their speed is reduced by anything. Anything naturally includes medium and heavy armor, medium and heavy loads, slow, fatigue, exhaustion, and... anything else that reduces speed

A creature with a natural fly speed also gets a +4 bonus to Balance and Climb checks, and a +8 bonus to Jump checks.

Also, a creature that can flap but can't fly, generally due to reduced speed, takes reduced falling damage. A fall is treated as though it was shorter by an amount equal to the creature's base fly speed. So a creature flying 50 in the air with a nat. fly speed of 30 only takes damage as though falling from a height of 20 feet.

Lastly, fully feathered creatures Fire Vulnerability. Additionally, a creature with feathered wings that suffers fire damage must make a Fortitude save (DC = fire damage suffered) or be unable to fly until the damage is healed.

 

[AGGEMAM]

For all those inconsistancies.

But there aren't any.

 

[CombatWombat51]

But there aren't any.

^_^

Um, by that, do you mean the MM trumps RoF because the MM is core? Or do you mean that it makes sense that avarials and winged outsiders use different and unique rules to handle their flight?

And a chain mail wearing colossal dragon can fly around perfectly fine until a pigeon perches on it? And the pigeon causes the dragon to come crashing to the ground? That makes sense to you, or am I missing something?

 

[Beretta]

^_^

Um, by that, do you mean the MM trumps RoF because the MM is core? Or do you mean that it makes sense that avarials and winged outsiders use different and unique rules to handle their flight?

And a chain mail wearing colossal dragon can fly around perfectly fine until a pigeon perches on it? And the pigeon causes the dragon to come crashing to the ground? That makes sense to you, or am I missing something?

Indeed!

While I was pretty sure there were rules for armoured dragons in the Draconomicon, I didn't have the book handy so I left out any references to that. It does seem absurd that a Dragon armoured in medium armour or heavier can no longer fly when it's rider mounts up, or why there's such a difference in movement for avariels, winged outsiders, or aasimars/tieflings with the appropriate feats.

CombatWombat: I like your ideas. Thanks! I might leave out the fire vulnerability for feathers though - that's a big ouch!

 

[CombatWombat51]

CombatWombat: I like your ideas. Thanks! I might leave out the fire vulnerability for feathers though - that's a big ouch!

Yeah, I'd completely understand not using that part. I brought it about because of a feathered race of fliers I test drove IMC as a PC race with no LA. Flight without LA... too scary for most folks I actually think the race turned out pretty darned well, but I don't use it anymore because they don't really fit with my current campaign.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Lastly, fully feathered creatures Fire Vulnerability. Additionally, a creature with feathered wings that suffers fire damage must make a Fortitude save (DC = fire damage suffered) or be unable to fly until the damage is healed.

What about the poor beggars with insect wings then? Do they get their wings crisped off if they take 5 or more points damage

 

[jodyjohnson]

I think the intent is that winged flying creatures can't fly for extended time periods at medium load, and heavy loads make flight very difficult.

No heavy barding/armor or heavy load for flight
Medium armor lowers speed to 2/3.
Medium burden limits flight to the same exertion as running and limits speed to 2/3. (i.e. a few minutes between resting). This makes it impractical to use the flight speed for overland movement.

Generally speaking the preference would be to remain at light load/armor but flight at medium load/armor would be possible for short periods of time.

I might even consider movement at heavy burden as jumping augmented by the wings. Overall heavy armor suits/barding seem incompatible with the movement required by winged flight. (magical flight only suffers the movement penalty for medium or heavy).

Probably a house rule but based in the RAR in the different sources.