Follow up to Paladin Trial - Paladin Wars?

[Torm]

I've been talking to some friends about our recent Paladin Trial, and one of them pointed out something nasty - something that could become akin to the Time of Troubles before its over with, but might have some nice end results for people who like to play Paladins. It goes like this:

After the close vote at the Council of Paladins, many of the Paladins there left dissatisfied with the outcome - certainly, Good had been served by the actions of the Vindicator, but what of Law? Vindicator's God had been held to honor the findings of the court, at Torm's request, but He was not fully satisfied, either.

In the following months, there came many more Ecclesiastical Courts and many more open discussions in gatherings of Paladins. Some of the Paladins argued a point of view that strongly favored Law over Good, others Good over Law, and both were making the case that their point of view best represented the cause of the Paladins (Lawful Good) altogether.

Finally, a Paladin of Tyr was found to be derelict in his duties by an Ecclesiastical Court for failing to uphold the laws of Cormyr (doesn't have to be Cormyr - that's just what popped in my head just now) in their pursuit of an Evil, and further, that court in conjunction with a court of Cormyrian authority ordered the Paladin imprisoned. Paladins of the Triad moved to free their brother-in-arms, and war broke loose.

Paladin against Paladin, both sides now determined that the other has been corrupted by some Evil force - and maybe they have?....

The end result of all of this could be that we would have Paladins split into two subclasses - some for which lose their Paladinhood for failure to adhere to Law, and some that lose it for failure to be Good. Might simplify things for DMs and players in their expectations of what they should be doing.

Thoughts? Questions? Refinements?

 

[Herremann the Wise]

This would be akin to taking away the fine line the Paladin must tread so that the Paladin could easily fall over one way or the other - law dominating or good dominating. Easier yes but I'll put in my opinion of no.
It is by walking this fine line that "makes the Paladin" who they are. Take this away and where is the fun and challenge in roleplaying these legendary characters?

If you sway away from good or sway away from law, then you suffer the consequences, however mild or devestating those consequences are. To limit this transgression to only one possible direction cheapens the class.

I vote leave it as it is.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

PS: And when was murdering someone from behind a good act? I suggest people read the BoED if they are in doubt on this one.

 

[SALADIN THE JUST]

The end result of all of this could be that we would have Paladins split into two subclasses - some for which lose their Paladinhood for failure to adhere to Law, and some that lose it for failure to be Good. Might simplify things for DMs and players in their expectations of what they should be doing. Thoughts? Questions? Refinements?

THIS Dichotomy between Law and Good that you speak of exists in all of the other alignments as well, except perhaps True Neutral (if there is ever such a concept). It is something that can be debated till ad infinitum ad nauseum. At the end of the day, the DM and the Players need to arrive at a workable definition of each Alighnment for their particular purposes and as a result commit to having that upheld during the course of their gaming sessions.

The scenario that you've described is a likely outcome, particularly for the Lawful Alignments since they far more than the others tend to walk on narrower paths, and anything narrowly defined is almost always subject to differences in interpretation. I concede that this is a scenario that can transpire, as much as I hate it ever to do so. But, if I was ever to find myself in such a situation, I would think it to be far more preferable to depart from such volatile environs and seek enlightenment, peace, sanctuary
and wisdom from the temple within and from Him who Guides my Hand.

 

[Dogbrain]

Great idea! This would make for some great gaming, and I hope it's implemented in the campaign in question. It'd put the PCs right at the core of the conflict. The PC paladin could become an unwilling "living symbol" for one side and Enemy #1 for the other.

I'd say that both sides should still maintain paladins as paladins and possibly have new core classes evolve for each viewpoint, not eliminating the original paladin class. Likewise, due to the nature of the conflict, paladins who end up gravitating into one or the other of the two new classes won't lose their old abilities. Instead, they'll "trade in" their paladin levels for levels in the new classes. Each of the new classes will call itself "paladin", of course. This wll make matters even more interesting and complicated. How do the "new" paladins view the "classic" paladins. Those who manage to tread a fine line often find themselves despised by both sides even more than the two sides hate each other.

 

[Baron Opal]

This rings a bell...

Doesn't the early part of Sepulchrave's story hour deal with this very concept? Which is more important to the paladin, clergy, church and god? Law or Good? Is a synthesis possible where the alignment isn't a mix of Lawful Neutral and Neutral Good but rather Lawful-Good?

Baron Opal

 

[Torm]

Doesn't the early part of Sepulchrave's story hour deal with this very concept?

Um, who? If this Sepulchrave you speak of had a similar concept, they are quite clever. First I've heard of it though, as so far, I've only been visiting the General RPG Discussion section, and that by itself is more than I have time to read....

 

[shilsen]

Um, who? If this Sepulchrave you speak of had a similar concept, they are quite clever. First I've heard of it though, as so far, I've only been visiting the General RPG Discussion section, and that by itself is more than I have time to read....

If you haven't read Sep's story hour you are really missing out. Go to the Story Hour forum, get into one of the threads started by Sepulchrave and ask for the archived story hour.

 

[babomb]

Um, who? If this Sepulchrave you speak of had a similar concept, they are quite clever. First I've heard of it though, as so far, I've only been visiting the General RPG Discussion section, and that by itself is more than I have time to read....

It is fairly similar. To make a long story short, a succubus is sent to seduce a paladin, but the paladin ends up trying to reform her. This results in a split between the law and good factions of the paladin's monotheistic religion, with the paladin becoming the head of the good faction. It is an excellent read, especially for paladin players/DMs.

 

[Sejs]

Um, who? If this Sepulchrave you speak of had a similar concept, they are quite clever. First I've heard of it though, as so far, I've only been visiting the General RPG Discussion section, and that by itself is more than I have time to read....

Shar's garters, man! You havn't read it?

Go! Get ye hence! Hie your divine arse to the Story Hour forum and read!

 

[the Jester]

Torm-

1. Go to the Story Hour forum.

2. Sort by thread starter, and look for Cheiromancer's thread "Tales of Wyre- Compiled Sepulchrave Story Hour". He's compiled Sep's dozen or so threads into one easily-found, easily-read thread with all the extraneous chatter cut out (although honestly said chatter is quite enjoyable, once you're caught up with the story.)