Fomorian Cackler

[Markn]

Fomorian Cackler has the following power:

Heartseeking Daggers (standard; at-will) • Weapon
Ranged 10; targets one or two creatures; +22 vs. AC; 2d8 + 7
damage.

Can you make two attacks against 1 target? Or only 1 attack against up 2 two targets? If its the latter, is it 1 attack roll?

 

[Mentat55]

My understanding is that it is one attack per target, up to two targets, with a separate attack roll for each.

 

[Markn]

That was my impression too, but a co-Dm thinks otherwise. His reasoning is that Ranger powers are worded similar and so you should be able to attack twice on the same target.

Its an interesting point and now I am not so sure...

 

[abyssaldeath]

That was my impression too, but a co-Dm thinks otherwise. His reasoning is that Ranger powers are worded similar and so you should be able to attack twice on the same target.

Its an interesting point and now I am not so sure...

The ranger powers like "Twin Strike" specifically say you get two attacks. "Heartseeking Daggers" does not say this.

If you look at the Invoker power "Divine Bolts" it is listed pretty much like the power in the OP. Since the hit line of "Divine Bolts" doesn't say "per attack" or "two attacks" you can only attack each target once.

 

[saltmania]

The ranger powers like "Twin Strike" specifically say you get two attacks. "Heartseeking Daggers" does not say this.

If you look at the Invoker power "Divine Bolts" it is listed pretty much like the power in the OP. Since the hit line of "Divine Bolts" doesn't say "per attack" or "two attacks" you can only attack each target once.

This is true. However, the Ranger power "Spikes of the Manticore" is like Divine Bolts, but explicitly states one attack per target.

I don't remember there being a general rule that says you only get one attack per target unless specified.
The PHB lists one attack per target(specific) as an example when describing the Target line of a power.

In fact I can't find a Ranger power that doesn't specify one way or the other. Because multiple targets in a ranged power is not as common, they usually are quite diligent about laying out exactly targets are selected.

I just find it strange that they were so specific in previous publications, but now they imply this behavior even though I don't believe there is a general rule supporting it.

 

[Markn]

Hello Co-DM.

welcome to En world.

 

[Markn]

I suppose if they meant only 1 attack per target, they could have made the power an area burst (with the limitation that enemies need to be close to one another while as written 2 creatures could be on either side of the cackler as long as they are in Range 10).

 

[Infiniti2000]

Whoa, be careful using PC powers as any proof regarding monster powers. That's simply not possible.

"I don't remember there being a general rule that says you only get one attack per target unless specified."

You don't need one. Just follow the power description. It's "one or two creatures", and how much damage do the targets get? "2d8 + 7 damage." There's nothing about damage per attack or number of attacks. In fact, you could say that one creature gets attacked twice, but the total sum of damage for those two attacks is "2d8 + 7 damage." There's nothing else you can use to argue for more damage, whether it's number of attacks or anything.

 

[Markn]

This power is from a level 1 creature in MM2.

Tendril Flurry (standard; recharge 5,6) • Psychic
Ranged 10; targets one, two, or three creatures; +4 vs. Reflex;
2d4 + 1 psychic damage.

Having 3 attacks for a potential of 6d4+3 would be pretty potents on one creature.

Additionally, it does not contain wording such as "make 3 attacks" or damage of "per hit".

It's also possible that the attack, whether against 1, 2 or 3 creatures is meant to be resolved with 1 roll and if thats the case that would support only 1 attack per target.

Additionally, you have monsters in the MM2 like the weretiger that specifically calls out making 2 attacks, albeit melee (without target limitations). With no target limitations, you can make 2 attacks against any number of targets up to 2 because thats how many attacks you have. With a target limitation without a number of attacks, it would indicate that you could make 1 attack up to the specified number of targets otherwise they would say you get X number of attacks without specifying targets since by default you are limited to the number off targets equalling the number of attacks.

Hope that makes sense...

 

[saltmania]

I think playing a ranger screwed up my perspective on this one.

It's just strange that they present one attack per target so differently. Looking through the MM2, there are several monsters who work just like this now and none have the specific one attack per target clarification.

Look at a Wizard's "Icy Rays" vs the Inovoker's "Divine Bolts". They have the exact same intention but are written quite diferently.

Specific is good, vauge is bad...imo