Football is of the devil.

[Ranger REG]

Totally not the same.

In one activity, I'm watching a game.

In the other, I'm participating in the game.

Thanks. Drive through.

It is the same.

I can watch a RPG session going on, or I can participate.

I can watch a basketball or a football game going on, or I can pick up my football, grab a few of my buddies, and go out in the park and play.

 

[CarlZog]

Hobbies are hobbies.

No, there are differenct kinds of hobbies. I'm inclined to agree with the distinction dK is drawing. There is a difference between activities in which a participant is primarily a passive consumer vs. those in which a participant is a creative producer. der Kluge clearly prefers the latter.

Consumer hobbies are those in which the hobbyist is primarily consuming the creative efforts of someone else. These are the equivalent of "fan-based" hobbies. It doesn't matter whether the subject is comic books, football or the opera. Fans may discuss their favorite works, write about it, and enjoy a lot of activities associated with the subject, but they are not active creators of the work. In other words, you may spend your time going to comic cons, tailgating at the stadium, or attending the opera, but you're not writing comics, playing football, or singing on stage.

Creative hobbies are those in which the participant is actually creating something -- whether its a physical product, as in woodworking, gardening, painting; or a performance, as in playing a musical instrument, playing a sport, or playing a game.

Obviously, you could pick this apart and say that there are many hobbies that are mix of the two, but I think the basic distinction is valid.

Edit: Ranger added:

It is the same.

I can watch a RPG session going on, or I can participate.

I can watch a basketball or a football game going on, or I can pick up my football, grab a few of my buddies, and go out in the park and play.

You're right. You can. But which is the primary focus of the hobby?

Does going to watch other people play RPGs form the primary basis your role in the hobby? Or are you participating in a regularly scheduled, organized game?

Similarly, is your primary interaction with football consist of watching others play the game? Or do you play regularly scheduled games on an organized team?

There is a fundamental difference in the nature of the activity.

Carl

 

[GlassJaw]

There is a fundamental difference in the nature of the activity.

So what? Does that give anyone a right to judge and classify a whole group of people based only their interests? Again, not liking a particular activity, hobby, whatever is fine. Negatively stereotyping people who enjoy a particular hobby or activity is another. Not cool.

 

[Rel]

So what? Does that give anyone a right to judge and classify a whole group of people based only their interests? Again, not liking a particular activity, hobby, whatever is fine. Negatively stereotyping people who enjoy a particular hobby or activity is another. Not cool.

I agree and I'll also note that Der Kluge doesn't seem to have "teh hate" for all spectator sports. He specifically indicated that he enjoyed watching the Olympics. And he also didn't say, "I can understand if you like playing football or even Fantasy Football, where you're at least participating on some level." He just doesn't like football.

What surprises me is that Der Kluge is trotting out an argument we see here all the time as it relates to RPG's. Every single week some yahoo goes into General and says, "People who play in X manner are having badwrongfun and they should stop because it is an incorrect way to enjoy themselves." And they always get called on it.

Of course everybody is going to have different tastes. I wouldn't have it any other way. And avoiding conversations about things you have no interest in is prudent and advisable. But I don't get the concept that the several football related threads floating around Off Topic are somehow polluting the place. Just don't read them.

Hell, I LIKE football and I haven't been reading them.

 

[CarlZog]

So what? Does that give anyone a right to judge and classify a whole group of people based only their interests?

It doesn't even give them the ability, much less a "right". In no way is it my intent that distinquishing between passive and active hobbies would serve as a tool for drawing broader conclusions about the characteristics of any given hobby's participants.

....I'll also note that Der Kluge doesn't seem to have "teh hate" for all spectator sports. He specifically indicated that he enjoyed watching the Olympics. And he also didn't say, "I can understand if you like playing football or even Fantasy Football, where you're at least participating on some level." He just doesn't like football.

You're right. Der Kluge held up the "spectator vs. participant" argument in one post, but that's clearly not his criteria for choosing.

Carl

 

[MaxKaladin]

Isn't interest in RPG mandatory here?

I don't know. I suppose if someone wanted to, they could just hang out here on the off-topic forum to participate in the various off-topic threads and not care at all about RPGs. People generally expect someone here to be interested in RPGs though.

In any case, that's not what I was talking about. What I'm talking about is the idea many sports fans seem to have that because I'm male I am required to be interested in sports or that because I live in San Antonio, I am required to be a enthusiastic fan of the Spurs. I'm not the only one to notice this. There is more than one comment upthread about how others have experienced this sort of thing. That's what I'm talking about as an interest in sports being manditory.

I don't view the two as the same thing. Expecting the people in the stadium or the sports bar to be sports fans or the people at a game convention or a RPG message board to be RPG fans is one thing and pretty reasonable. Requiring me to be a fan because I happen to live in the same city or because of my gender isn't.

 

[Henry]

OK, more serious suggestion: That book by Holly Peete is actually interesting stuff, and does point out that there's a lot more strategy that goes on than what it looks like. Curtis, Next time you find yourself strolling a Borders or Books a Million, it'd be worth the 5 min. to read the first chapter. Despite me being bored to tears with watching most "Ball Sports," it was an interesting read.

 

[Henry]

It is the same.

I can watch a RPG session going on, or I can participate.

I can watch a basketball or a football game going on, or I can pick up my football, grab a few of my buddies, and go out in the park and play.

Yeah, but one thing to notice is that Der Kluge also doesn't spend much of any time in the Rules forum, from what I see, which is more or less where discussion of RPGs goes on, which is similar to sports fans gawking and discussing football plays.

 

[Crothian]

Yeah, but one thing to notice is that Der Kluge also doesn't spend much of any time in the Rules forum, from what I see, which is more or less where discussion of RPGs goes on, which is similar to sports fans gawking and discussing football plays.

But even general discussion is akin to sports fans just talking about sports. Publishing forum is getting feedback from coaches and players and people actually involved in the industry. House rules are things like Canadian football so most forums here have an equivilent in the sports universe.

 

[Darth K'Trava]

Yep. This is a perfect example of what I hate about sports, too. I've generally found that those of us who don't like sports generally just keep it to ourselves. Sports fans don't like to return that courtesy. The moment they get wind of someone saying they hate sports, they immediately leap to the defense.

Sounds like those who react the same way regarding religion and politics. I have a friend who will argue 'till his face is blue about his political views and be pretty much damned about how *you* feel about it.... :\ I don't have too much of a prob with it as mine are similar to his, but he's just a bit too ardent about his POV.

And there are those who give the same spiel regarding their religious affiliation too.

So it's not just sports fan(atics) who react vehemently to defend their "passion"....