D&D 1E [For ORCUS] Convince me that I can "do 1E" with 4E

[FadedC]

When you get down to it, there is really no way for any new system to truely capture the feel of first edition. The reason for this is because there is no way for any new system to turn back the clock and make you 14 years old again.

Regardless of how old you actually were when you played it, or even how long ago it was, there is no way to get around the fact that the first time you see something new, it will always seem much more special to you.

 

[JoeGKushner]

The biggest problem with 3e in comparission to 1e is that 3e made a ton of assumptions about what players could and couldn't do and built those assumptions into it's wonky CR system and in every default adventure so that if you were playing a grim 'sword & sorcery' style game and were a bad GM (by not making huge customizations to published adventures for example), then you'd wind up with a world of trouble.

Most game systems can indeed mimick 1e feel but the GM really has to be on the ball in terms of making sure that he's in tune with what the players are doing, what they are capable of doing and how he's setting up the adventure. In 1e for example, you might not need a rogue to handle some of the traps if the Gm described them to you. Ditto for secret doors and other 'hidden' aspects of the game based on the players descriptions. This requires work on the GM's part though.

Part of taking 'away' the GM's power in giving players access to mechanical abilities to determine success and failure without GM input is that well, it's built into the system and unless the GM does the work of providing the players alternatives... it ain't pretty.

 

[WayneLigon]

Frankly, the tone and style of 1E adventures is what I love about D&D, and so far 4E has given me the feeling that I am being left behind in favor of younger, faster, sexier gamers that prefer a faster, sexier game where players rule.

I would still say that system doesn't matter, unless you're specifically talking about system specific restrictive elements, and the tone and feel one gets for the player and GM's place in things from the 1E text. If you're talking about those specific things, then no - the train has left the station on that and it ain't coming back. If you're talking about the types and styles of adventures like the classic modules and articles provide, then you can do that with any game system. I could run a 'dungeon crawl kill people and take their stuff and avoid the traps along the way' Conan-esque adventure with Traveller, or FATE, or anything at all.

 

[Valiant]

The system does matter greatly. If you were to play any of the TSR early 1E classic modules using 3E the experiance would not be the same. I mean, the characters are completely different for starters, never mind the combat rules.

But, I for one would like to see what ORCUS can come up with. The problem with 1E style 4E modules is that this will draw more of the 1Eers into buying 4E stuff. Thats a net negative.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

When you get down to it, there is really no way for any new system to truely capture the feel of first edition. The reason for this is because there is no way for any new system to turn back the clock and make you 14 years old again.

If I could go back to being 14 years old again, my first thought wouldn't be to play D&D.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The system does matter greatly. If you were to play any of the TSR early 1E classic modules using 3E the experiance would not be the same. I mean, the characters are completely different for starters, never mind the combat rules.

But, I for one would like to see what ORCUS can come up with. The problem with 1E style 4E modules is that this will draw more of the 1Eers into buying 4E stuff. Thats a net negative.

If they didn't convert to 3E when Necromancer was doing 3E games with 1E feel, why would the 1E community be diminished by 4E versions?

The fact is that there are more people playing 3E enjoying a 1E vibe -- derived from Necromancer, Goodman, Paizo or just their own inner RBDM -- than there are 1E players playing 1E.

It can be done. It is being done. It will continue to be done.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

I would guess that what Orcus meant was to produce modules for 4e that draw their inspiration from the "1e experience". Injecting atmosphere and playstyle into a newer edition that has it´s own kind of "core playstyle" and is going to develop it´s own specific atmosphere.

In other words, Orcus is trying to support those people who are happily playing 4e and just want some of the best traits of 1e ported over. If you want the "real deal", it is of course better to play the original.

My personal opinion on the matter: The longer you play and DM a roleplaying game, the more you know about it, the better you know EXACTLY what the playstile is you are searching for. And the harder it is going to accept something new.
Good for me that i´m a happy-go-luck guy who´ll play and DM nearly anything. Bad for the OP, because i do not think that anyone can grant his wish. Not even the mighty Orcus.

 

[WayneLigon]

The system does matter greatly. If you were to play any of the TSR early 1E classic modules using 3E the experiance would not be the same. I mean, the characters are completely different for starters, never mind the combat rules.

Well, so what if they are completely different? The feel of the module is what you're after; all the system/combat stuff is just window dressing. Now, if you're talking about the exact specifics, such as 'I will expect my 7-8th level 3E party of six guys to waltz into the Steading of the Hill Giants like they did in 1E, and face a room of 7 3E Hill Giants and win - as they would have done in 1E' then that ain't happening. Monsters are vastly stronger than their 1E versions. 7 3E Hill Giants is a tough, tough fight for six 12th level people, much less people in the Steading's suggested level range'.

Is that the kind of thing you're talking about?

Thats a net negative.

I don't understand what you mean, there.

 

[Imaro]

So what exactly is 1e feel vs. 1e mechanics...I'm just curious about how to define the difference.

 

[scholz]

The best things about 1E as my memory serves me.

• Real feeling of peril, because anyone could die at any time.
• Reasonable multiclassing rules, mostly because of the vast amounts of XP needed to go up to high levels
• Relative ease of adding house rules, since most elements of the game were entirely independent of each other
• Hidden treasures and oddities (psionics, assassinations, intelligent weapons, pummeling) that you could discover as you 'mastered' the game
• Strangely vindictive, punitive rules that gave gravitas to the game (level loss, alignment change, reincarnation, etc)
• the unquenchable need for treasure and experience points

The worst things about 1E as my memory serves me.

• Real feeling of peril, because anyone could die at any time.
• the vast amounts of XP needed to go up to high levels
• Relative ease necessity of adding house rules, since most elements of the game were entirely independent of each other
• Hidden treasures rules and oddities (psionics, assassinations, intelligent weapons, pummeling) that you could discover as you 'mastered' the game
• Strangely vindictive, punitive rules that gave gravitas to trivialized the game (level loss, alignment change, reincarnation, etc)
• the unquenchable need for treasure and experience points