D&D General For the Love of Greyhawk: Why People Still Fight to Preserve Greyhawk

[amethal]

So let me add in something called Character Trees (I wish I remembered what setting thiswas from in 90s).

a character tree has each Player make 3-5 characters. They share the same xp total (so all level up at same time) then you switch in and out as the game plays...

That was in Dark Sun.

 

[amethal]

Well, there's also the Yeomanry.

That's a country in Greyhawk.

No bonus points for figuring out who lives there.

If there is a 5th edition version, it needs to be renamed the Yeofolkry.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

This idea that Greyhawk is somehow unique in the fact that lords have to respect powerful warriors, and that high level players are major forces in the world is boggling to me.

Putting this nicely, and reviewing your (MANY!) posts on this topic, I don't think you're going to be satisfied, because you want to argue against it.

You have stated that you haven't read any of the literary antecedents that people describe to you, and have no desire to. So when people try to describe things to you, you not only have no foundation of knowledge, you don't want to, and seem to think that's okay. (I disagree).

You have stated that you don't want to investigate this on your own, despite there being numerous resources (many of which are more interesting than just wikipedia). Instead, you keep demanding that people explain things to you that you can disagree with.

You have stated that "tone" and such doesn't matter in any settings, because you can run what you want in any setting. You previously wrote that you can run super gritty games in Eberron and Ravnica, so it would seem that you don't really think that setting matters. Which would be odd, because if it doesn't matter, then it doesn't matter for any setting.

When people explain lore to you (things that they like), you argue against whatever the lore is that they provide. It's either, "Oh, all settings have that," or it's "What, how dare a setting have that!" (like in the Free City example).

Maybe you don't see this ... but it does seem, well, oppositional is the nice term.

It's fine- different people enjoy different things.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

If there is a 5th edition version, it needs to be renamed the Yeofolkry.

Or maybe it could be an entire country of men. It's like the New Jersey of Greyhawk.

But instead of saying, YO!, they say .... YEO!

They are .... the YEO MAN!


.....ugh. I may be the only person in the world, but all the emphasis on "Folk" in D&D now always makes me think of ffolkes, the weird Roger Moore movie that wasn't James Bond.

Those double "f"s will stick with you.

 

[TwoSix]

Ignorance of the giants of the fantasy genre may not be the most sensible argument to make. I read my father’s copies of Elric of Melnibone when I was a young teen. I’m glad that I did because it was eye-opening when it came to the fantasy genre.

Elric had a tremendous influence on popular fantasy. It’s probably more difficult to not encounter it. You can see his influence in Geralt (The Witcher), Arthas the Lich King (World of Warcraft), the Targaryens (Game of Thrones), Warhammer, D&D’s alignment system (Chaos vs. Law), and also giving his nickname “the White Wolf” to both Geralt and White Wolf Publishing.

Elric definitely does not feel like Forgotten Realms on a tonal level.

I mean, in an ideal world, most fantasy fans would have read some Moorcock. But, speaking purely in terms of generating a marketing hook for Greyhawk, which seems to be what @Chaosmancer is looking for, telling people to go back and read their classics doesn't generate a lot of positive enthusiasm.

It's perfectly fine to know that Elric was an inspiration for Arthas and Geralt, but any publisher of an updated Greyhawk needs to be able to sell to Gen Zers who only know Arthas and Geralt.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Or maybe it could be an entire country of men. It's like the New Jersey of Greyhawk.

But instead of saying, YO!, they say .... YEO!

They are .... the YEO MAN!


.....ugh. I may be the only person in the world, but all the emphasis on "Folk" in D&D now always makes me think of ffolkes, the weird Roger Moore movie that wasn't James Bond.

Those double "f"s will stick with you.

The name is real (and the spelling). Double f's are not uncommon at the start of upper class English names. I suspect it has something to with the Normans.

I suspect the film you are thinking of is North Sea Hijack.

It was based on a novel.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I mean, in an ideal world, most fantasy fans would have read some Moorcock. But, speaking purely in terms of generating a marketing hook for Greyhawk, which seems to be what @Chaosmancer is looking for, telling people to go back and read their classics doesn't generate a lot of positive enthusiasm.

It's perfectly fine to know that Elric was an inspiration for Arthas and Geralt, but any publisher of an updated Greyhawk needs to be able to sell to Gen Zers who only know Arthas and Geralt.

It's difficult to come up with a so-called "Hook" given that any hook that is provided is completely rubbished, while people think that hooks for other campaign worlds ("This is where video game characters came from,") is perfectly fine.

Honestly, if you were just going for a marketing hook, I would hammer home the history- "This is where D&D started- now your PCs can be a part of that history."

 

[TwoSix]

It's difficult to come up with a so-called "Hook" given that any hook that is provided is completely rubbished, while people think that hooks for other campaign worlds ("This is where video game characters came from,") is perfectly fine.

Honestly, if you were just going for a marketing hook, I would hammer home the history- "This is where D&D started- now your PCs can be a part of that history."

That's a fantastic hook, and I would definitely play that up for a rebooted Greyhawk.

 

[wingsandsword]

Now, I'm sure you can read the above and say, "Well, I can adapt a gritty, low-magic, morally-grey world to Forgotten Realms, or Eberron, or even Ravnica if I try."

They tried that, it was called the Spellplague. Was rather controversial, turned a lot of fans off the setting. Pretty much every serious Realms fan I know ignores it or at best focuses on stuff from before it.

 

[Aldarc]

It's perfectly fine to know that Elric was an inspiration for Arthas and Geralt, but any publisher of an updated Greyhawk needs to be able to sell to Gen Zers who only know Arthas and Geralt.

Clearly the correct sell for Greyhawk then is the edge-lord angle.

Honestly, if you were just going for a marketing hook, I would hammer home the history- "This is where D&D started- now your PCs can be a part of that history."

This is what I proposed on the previous page. Sell it as Gygax's D&D setting.