Forgery for "non-official" documents

[Jen the Wood Elf]

Sorry if this is silly question, but this has never come up before and my players don't seem to know the answer either.

Forgery can be used to make "fake" passports, IDs, etc. But, what if I wanted to make a copy of an artifact or manuscript? For example, what if I wanted to make a copy of a treasure map (either id. to the original or slightly different)? I assume it would be "difficult" and would take the -8 penalty and if I had the original "on-hand" it would give a +4 bonus. But, I don't know what the base DC is or if there are other considerations. Do you guys have experience with this?

 

[Arkhandus]

You don't need a Forgery check to make a copy of a map or something that you see before you. Unless you're trying to duplicate somebody else's handwriting in the process, rather than using your own style of handwriting. It wouldn't be difficult, I don't think, if the original is present for you to examine as you work. I don't know what you mean by copying an artifact though.

 

[cuteasaurus]

As far as other considerations go...this may be obvious, but you'd need to make sure you had the "starting" materials on-hand. As far as the DC goes, are you trying to fool someone else into thinking they have the original? I suppose then it would depend on how familiar that person was with the document...

 

[The_Universe]

I'm assuming you're looking at the D20 Modern version of forgery?

 

[Jen the Wood Elf]

Yeah, sorry if that wasn't clear. I'm trying to determine how hard it would be to make a copy of a paper like a map or manuscript so that the copy could be substituted for the original. For example, swapping out a treasure map that someone has with a copy so that you have the original and they have the fake (and perhaps the fake would have a minor adjustment?). I'm assuming you could have access to the original when making the copy but still don't know how hard it would be to make a copy good enough to fool someone else.

 

[Jen the Wood Elf]

I'm assuming you're looking at the D20 Modern version of forgery?

Yes.

 

[cuteasaurus]

It seems like establishing DCs for when the other person "checks" it are easier than determining the DC for the forgery's success...

Maybe something like this?

DC 5 if they've never seen it, but know vaguely what it's supposed to look like
DC 10 if they've seen it but only briefly
DC 15 if they've seen it often but not nec. closely (like hanging in a museum?)
DC 20+ for people who have seen it up-close for longer periods before or who owned the item?

 

[The_Universe]

I just looked at it again. There are no "base" forgery DC's. You roll, add up the bonuses and penalties, and then try to pass off your forgery as the real thing. Your opponent then rolls a Forgery check (or whatever attribute Forgery is based on) to determine whether or not he or she can spot the fake. If they roll higher than you, they spot the innacuracies/differences. If you roll higher than them, they don't notice, and accept the document for the real thing.

 

[JimAde]

Or you could do an opposed check. Your Forgery (which sets the DC) vs. the other person's Spot. Modifiers would include the stuff cuteasaurus listed, but as modifiers to the Spot roll:

- 5 if they've never seen it, but know vaguely what it's supposed to look like
+0 if they've seen it but only briefly
+5 if they've seen it often but not nec. closely (like hanging in a museum?)
+10 for people who have seen it up-close for longer periods before or who owned the item

Definitely a contest of some kind, I would think.

EDIT: The_Universe got his post in ahead of me, and I see this is how the rule is supposed to work, but with Forgery instead of Spot. Cool

 

[Jen the Wood Elf]

So, it'd be opposing forgery checks...does that mean the person getting the fake can't id it unless they have ranks in forgery?