D&D 5E (2024) Forgotten Realms subclasses discussion.

[Horwath]

Plus all their spell slots that could be used for healing.

Sure, trying to turn a martial character into a healer isn’t an optimal way to play. And that definitely applies to Banneret too.

I played a reworked paladin without spells that has modified LoH and smite usage.
Smite is returned as a free action but only ONCE on YOUR turn.

all spellcasting is removed.

Lay on Hands is increased in pool by A LOT.
Still uses Bonus action, but as an Action you can use it at 60ft
You can also split the healing between yourself and your target
at 5th level you can split the healing between 2 targets(plus yourself) that are withing reach or withing 5ft of themselves if using ranged healing
at 9th level you can split the healing between 2 targets(plus yourself) that are withing reach or withing 5ft of themselves if using ranged healing
at 13th level you can split the healing between 2 targets(plus yourself) that are withing reach or withing 5ft of themselves if using ranged healing
at 17th level you can split the healing between 2 targets(plus yourself) that are withing reach or withing 5ft of themselves if using ranged healing.

LoH healing amount is limited to 10HP per Paladin level

Smite:
you can use 5 point of LoH healing to deal +1d6 damage with your melee weapon attack or +1d4 damage with your ranged weapon attack.
amount of bonus damage is limited to:
1st level: 2 dice(10pts of healing)
5th level: 3 dice(15pts of healing)
9th level: 4 dice(20pts of healing)
13th level: 5 dice(25pts of healing)
17th level: 6 dice(30pts of healing)

11th level: Improved smite: now its +1d6 for every melee weapon attack and +1d4 for every ranged weapon attack.

Amount of LoH per paladin level:

 

[mellored]

Plus all their spell slots that could be used for healing.

True, but also minus second wind, which i didn't include as i was comparing fighter vs fighter.

And for full comparison, you need to factor some smite slots to cover action surge, extra feat (i.e. Inspiring Leader) vs aura of protection, and so on.

Not that any EK would just dump their slots on healing. Though picking up healing word for emergencies makes sense.

Sure, trying to turn a martial character into a healer isn’t an optimal way to play. And that definitely applies to Banneret too.

Right. Banneret is a support subclass, it's not going to out damage Battlemaster. Not unless you count the damage frombkeeping allies alive, or the extra hits for advantage, but that's complicated to compare and heavily party dependant.

Banneret, assuming at least a minimum of party optimization, is not weak like some are suggesting. May even he overpowered with the right allies, but more analysts is needed.

3d4+3* your level, for no additional action, is a alot of healing per short rest.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Right. Banneret is a support subclass, it's not going to out damage Battlemaster.

Nor outheal a cleric or druid. Nor outsupport a bard. Nor do anything well at all.

 

[mellored]

Nor outheal a cleric or druid. Nor outsupport a bard. Nor do anything well at all.

I agree Banneret is not a Warlord is that's what your implying. It's still a fighter, it's still hitting people with Great Weapon Mastery and Push on longbow attacks, and attacking a lot.

Though a level 10+ party with...
Sea Druid with Shillelagh and Spiked growth
Banneret with Push, advantage, and out of turn movement.
Dance bard with Enlarge, punches, and out of turn movement.
Golaith Elemental Grapple Monk with Speedy and Cold Caster
GOO Blade Lock with Repelling Blast and Hex (reduce Str saves)

Is going to seriously shred some creatures.

Also, Banneret 15 is kind of meh. As you need to share a resource. So probably multiclass out of fighter (possibly to paladin) after level 12 as usual.

 

[DavyGreenwind]

Does anyone else think that the College of the Moon Bard's level 6 ability is supposed to be at-will, and not once per long rest? Causing a friend to regain 2d4 hp once per long rest does not seem like enough to be an entire level 6 ability...

 

[Sulicius]

Does anyone else think that the College of the Moon Bard's level 6 ability is supposed to be at-will, and not once per long rest? Causing a friend to regain 2d4 hp once per long rest does not seem like enough to be an entire level 6 ability...

Oh it's way better than that. For the entire casting of that moonbeam, whenever an enemy fails the saving throw, you can heal allies. It keeps triggering for the duration of the spell, which can be a lot of healing over a couple turns.

 

[mellored]

Oh it's way better than that. For the entire casting of that moonbeam, whenever an enemy fails the saving throw, you can heal allies. It keeps triggering for the duration of the spell, which can be a lot of healing over a couple turns.

Problem is, it doesn't scale.

It should be 1d4 healing per spell level or 1d4+bard level or something like that.

 

[DavyGreenwind]

Oh it's way better than that. For the entire casting of that moonbeam, whenever an enemy fails the saving throw, you can heal allies. It keeps triggering for the duration of the spell, which can be a lot of healing over a couple turns.

Ohhh, got it. That makes more sense

 

[GarrettKP]

Problem is, it doesn't scale.

It should be 1d4 healing per spell level or 1d4+bard level or something like that.

It doesn’t need to scale though? You’re still using Moonbeam, throwing around free healing, and can still use BA spells to throw more healing if needed.

Scaling features don’t matter nearly as much on a full caster as they do on Martial characters. They already scale great by being a full caster.

 

[mellored]

It doesn’t need to scale though? You’re still using Moonbeam, throwing around free healing, and can still use BA spells to throw more healing if needed.

It does if you want to use it for more than 5 levels.

You can upcast Moonbeam for damage reasonable. But 5 HP per failed save, maybe 20 total, isn't much of a feature at level 17.

Scaling features don’t matter nearly as much on a full caster as they do on Martial characters. They already scale great by being a full caster.

Fair, but every other subclasses features scale. Even dance bard scales their punches.

Which might be the better way to scale the moon bard. Heal 2 rolls of your inspiration die. (2d6 ->2d12).