Forgotten Realms - What happened to Tilverton in DR 1372?

[jester47]

DIdn't they also melt an ice cap and change the weather patterns for all of northern FR or something?

The problem with most of the FR major events for me is that they're so large, they can't be ignored if you want to keep up with new stuff. What I mean by that is that saying the Time of Troubles never happened doesn't end your work. All future FR work assumes the ToT did happen, and will require modification. If suddenly every new book assumes that the environment changed because of the Shades, it requires more and more modification.

If I recall (correctly) the environmental changes are somthing that only made it into the novels.

The ToT are somthing that are easy enough to stay out of the way of. Just make magic work and keep the PCs out of places where gods are and if you cant stay away from all the god stuff: "Whats going on out there?" "Oh, couple of gods are fighting." "Hrm, how interesting. Tell them to be quiet, we're planning. Anyways, if we can find the dragon's hoarde before he gets back..."

Simple as that. Its background. Some of us are better at working around it than others.

Even with all its big stuff going on I like the playing in the realms.

Aaron.

 

[Faraer]

Officially, sourcebooks and novels are both 'canon'. (Generally, so are magazine articles, but it's a little more ambiguous.) Yes, some novelists write a different Realms than some sourcebook authors, and novel things are perhaps more likely to be rationalized and reinterpreted, but there's certainly no hard sourcebook/novel division.

Canon is two separate but often conflated concepts: First, the practical sense of what future published material will be compatible with; this kind of canon is inevitable. Second, what's 'real' or authentic. Companies aren't really in the business of telling you that, just selling stuff, though I agree there's a pressure of assumed adherence to the whole published Realms, RSEs and all. In this sense, Ed's unpublished writings are more canonical to me than lousy published stuff.

The Time of Troubles was, ironically, first suggested by Ed in Dragon #52. I still can't see what good it did the Realms other than publicizing it and generating revenue. Certain parts, like the 'killing' of Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul, are particularly senseless (and nobody involved seems to remember why that was done).

One particularly stupid (unless there's a subtle explanation I haven't realized) aspect of the new surface drow is that they're from Menzoberranzan, hundreds of miles to the west, as if there aren't any drow under the Dalelands.

Also, the Player's Guide to Faerûn exacerbates the a-few-major-passive-stories problem mentioned above by writing up only the Shade and War of the Spider Queen events in a section purporting to give all the news of the last few years.

 

[Vocenoctum]

Simple as that. Its background. Some of us are better at working around it than others.

My point is, if you don't like the time of troubles, and just say it never happened. That means all the future products that assume the ToT did occur need also be modified. I'm not saying it's insurmountable, but still, it makes it hard to ignore a major event when everything further down the line assumes that event occured.

The complaints about the Time of Troubles usually have nothing to do with the actual time when the gods walked Faerun, it's about their impact and aftermath.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Eilistraee dosen't make much sense to me anyway; why can't good-aligned drow simply go back to worshipping the deities of the Seldarine (or make like Drizzt and pick a patron from the Faerunian pantheon)? Why do they need an entire patron deity devoted to good-aligned, surface-dwelling dark elves?

Eilistraee is their goddess of redemption. They don't have to cleave to their evil ways forever. Also, the question remains on whether the seldarine would want drow worshippers.

Except of course that most of the "dead" gods came back and then we were stuck with new gods that in certain cases were completely out of sync with the feel of the setting.

Bane returned, and Waukeen wasn't really dead. Bhaal, Myrkul, Leira, are dead and haven't returned.

Er, what? Two words: The Dalelands. I'm not talking at all about the Lolth's Silence and inter-city conflict stuff; I'm talking about armies of drow on the surface.

Huh? That's not related to the WotSQ, right? Some older stuff IIRC

I think you might have missed my point, which is that these events DID happen with no particular lead-up or attempt to really integrate them into the adventure framework or feel of the setting. The ToT was at least subject to a desultory attempt to do so. Again, the fact that I can do the work to write these events into my setting is totally self-defeating; wasn't your point that these events drive the setting forward without requiring work on the DM's part to write a progressive flow of events?

If you take the events as they are, you have not much work. If you want to change it, e.g. by letting the players take an acitve role in the events, you have of course work before you. That should not be too much, I think (and they did a module for the WotSQ)

Actually, it's a real pain in the rear. It required shuffling around organizations in a way that didn't really make sense (are all the Zhentarim going to shift their natures to NE/CE because Cyric's now in charge?), required a radical adjustment in attitude

NE can stay under cyric, and evel those with LE alignment can stay, as long as they're no divine spellcasters. And after Bane came back, all evil alignments (and two of the neutrals) are possible within the Black Network

(so the power of the deities is now dependent upon worshipers, eh? Why then do such little-worshiped deities as Mystra and Talos retain their power?)

The way I see it, they get some power from their portfolios still. Also, worshippers don't have to be devoted solely to the deity in question. Many arcanists offer quick prayers to mystra, and many people beseech Talos to spare them. That amounts to power,too.

No. What it means is that the distinction between past and present, especially the mystique of the past that provides so much of the Realms' flavor, is eroded; it means that the formerly interesting Netherese archwizards are now more common than skilled wagoneers;

Not really. There are netherese archwizards again, but they're far from common.

You have read Drow of the Underdark, right?

Wrong

Dumping thousands of drow in the middle of the Dales just takes away the mystique and precious rarity (again) and makes them mundane.

I don't have a problem with things being mundane instead of rare. If I had, I wouldn't play in the realms, were gods are abundand, magic is commonplace, monsters that in other fantasie worlds are unique have societies...

One particularly stupid (unless there's a subtle explanation I haven't realized) aspect of the new surface drow is that they're from Menzoberranzan, hundreds of miles to the west, as if there aren't any drow under the Dalelands.

House Jaelre was forced to flee from Menzo (for their "failure" to worship lolth), they first dwelled in some Big Maze (with minotaurs as neighbours), but then used a portal to get away from there (obviously, the mino's were bad neighbours - refusing to turn down the radio, attacking them on sight, not returning the lawn mower...) and that led them into Cormanthor.

 

[Arnwyn]

but by using a pregen, you're telling them that those details are the standard.

Well, I think we'll have to agree to disagree, because you and I are just not on the same wavelength. When I use a pregen, I know I am certainly not "telling them that those details are the standard". My base assumption is that they don't know anything more about the campaign world than they would if it's a homebrew. I don't care whether it's published in stores or not... as soon as it's in my hands, it's equivalent to a homebrew.

Dismissing their objections as "it's my FR" or "you'll live" doesn't really help the players much.

I see no difference saying the above whether it's a homebrew or pregen (of course, that's based on how I see a pregen, as noted in my paragraph above).

Needless to say - I don't agree with you.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

When I use a pregen, I know I am certainly not "telling them that those details are the standard". My base assumption is that they don't know anything more about the campaign world than they would if it's a homebrew.

Well, there's stuff you just know, and that's true for both homebrew and published worlds. Realms Example: A character from the dalelands would almost certainly know of Elminster and Storm, maybe even know them a little. That can just be assumed. A waterdhavian character would know about the lords who rule the city. But if they now say that they want to go to Elminster to ask them about that artifact and you say "there's no Elminster in my realms" without ever telling them that, they're probably P'ed by that, and rightly so.

I don't say that a Ice Wind Dale should know about the Rotting Man and his Blightlords, or that a young thief on the streets of calimport should know that a vampiric stasis clone of manshoon runs the Night Masks in Westgate. But some knowledge is so widespread that you should tell them if you change it.