Forgotten Rums....? Evil Overlords...?

[JeffB]

Re: Re: Re: DM Support

of course, cos almost no campaigns have buildings in them...

Yes, but SBG is a book about building castles, strongholds, and whatnot..It’s fine for those who are running sieges or mass combats, or something similar…

The percentage of DM’s who need a whole book about this stuff to design the local town mayor’s office, or their bad guy’s mountain-side tower is minimal at best…

I stand by my original post…the SBG is too narrowly focused to be worth much to the greater majority of DM’s…I’m not saying it’s not a worthwhile addition for some DM’s…but I don’t see it as general support for DM’s…

All,

As I stated earlier…BARRING whether you like the specific content, MotP is the TYPE of book I’d like to see more of from all companies, WOTC or otherwise…A Book of Tools w/ SOME pre-made crunch/fluff that can be utilized by the DM to use as is if they want, and more importantly a set of tools that allow one to create to individual whims….

Instead of a book full of pre-made PrClasses, how bout some toolkit books on how to go about making your own PrClasses to fit YOUR campaign? Being spoon-fed “kewl” new PrClasses and feats that may or may not be appropriate for each individual DM is not necessarily supportive. Producing a detailed book that is toolkit for each and every DM out there to design his or her own Prclasses/feats. Etc., is supportive to virtually all DM’s.

I’ll take a Complete book of Villains, MotP, World/Dungeon Builders Guide, or whatever ANYDAY over Enemies and Allies, small niche products like SBG, or another Mega-Dungeon crawl…

IMO of course…

 

[Psion]

Re: DM Support

Deities & Demigods, 224 pp. How to use gods in a campaign, including creating your own.

FWIW, I found the products you listed much more useful that rounser did... but then, rounser is a known kvetcher, so that is hardly a surprise.

That said, I was really set aback by the lack of utility on DDG. First off, you cite 224 pages of "how to use gods in a campaign", but really, a rather large part of that is devoted to deity stats that
1) Many or most GMs will not use, as deity stats RARELY come directly into play in the levels of play most D&Ders play at. More about the followers of the deity and less deity stats would have been of much higher utility.
2) Many GMs will not use at any rate, because they don't use the listed pantheons.

Now, making your own deities IS useful, but I had hoped that more options would have been presented for how deities interact and rules of conduct. For example, thinks like divine moots, options like making it so that deities can only destroy other deities at great personal cost, etc. As it is, DDG has a very singular approach on this note: it uses an expanded version of the basic D&D combat system and dismisses interaction on a more mystical level.

That said, as long as you are here: On your page, you say you didn't know if ELH stuff would be added to the SRD, you didn't know if the demand was there. Well let me tell you: I think ELH needs to be added to the SRD in a bad way! Lots of products like LOH held off on adding more epic level stuff specifically because they didn't have the tools. And after seeing the ELH, I think it could afford some third party support.

 

[der_kluge]

*wonders what a "kvetcher" is*

 

[Sholari]

Here is my take on what a I consider DM support. DM support varies depending on 1) the type of campaign you want to run and 2) what your limitations are as a DM. In a way it is like running a services company. There are certain things that are more economically efficient for me to outsource to the game company (Wizards of the Coast). Personally, I am great at coming up with rules and ways to referee on the fly. I chose not to use a lot of the add-on rules because they don’t add much value for me. I am also great at integrating completely unrelated modules into a cohesive and compelling story. However, I do not have the time to think through the details of every room and encounter. This will differ for other DMs. Of course, market research will point to how to properly segment DMs out there in the market. I would say start by studying how DMs put their games together.

From some of the interviews I read the decision was made for options instead of restrictions in the core rules. I think this was absolutely the right decision for the core rules. However, I think this thinking has carried over into the campaign materials for settings such as the Forgotten rules and Greyhawk. For my campaign setting I am not looking for monsters, deities, magic, and factions all split out from each other into separate books so that I can pick and choose. For me the real value lies in how these things are integrated on a regional level. The Forgotten Realms Campaign setting captured this very well, but I am looking for the same integrated set at a more regional level where the campaign happens. The Witchfire Trilogy (minus the steampowered stuff and linearity) also did this well.

In terms of the campaign setting itself I am looking for something that will integrate well with my previous resource materials but very compelling in its own right (Savage Frontiers supplement). Furthermore, I want points of dramatic tension in the world where major things are brewing beneath the surface, but what actually triggers is up to me (Old Empires by Scott Bennie). However, I do not want huge world changing events that irrevocably alter the campaign world like the Time of Troubles in the Forgotten Realms.

I want 3-dimensional modules with a strong but non-linear story element and good ambience that I can tie into some overarching story line of my own creation. Although the ambience has been good, the problem with recent modules like the Sunless Citadel is they were fairly weak on story and too episodical. Modules that I think have been very good are as follows: the Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh, Danger at Dunwater, the Slavelord Series, Thirds of Purloined Vellum (recent Dungeon magazine module), Pharaoh and the rest of Desert of Desolation series, Castle Amber, Dragons of Despair, and the Assassin’s Knot.

 

[Piratecat]

*wonders what a "kvetcher" is*

A complainer.

 

[novyet]

It was about a WHALE druid.

I guess I'm missing something, what's wrong with that?

 

[Skarp Hedin]

I guess I'm missing something, what's wrong with that?

Well, Harn only has dolphin druids, see...

I thought the whale druid was pretty interesting, myself. I wouldn't use it in my current campaign, as it doesn't really fit the setting, but I liked it. It was the first example I'd seen of an awakened animal with class levels (that I can think of offhand), and I found it to be pretty interesting.

 

[herald]

If my memory servers, the whale wasn't a druid. It was a epic level Druid that could Wild Shape into a whale, wasn't it?

 

[Lady Dragon]

Without a doubt ELH needs to be supported perferably by both WoTC and third party companies but since I doubt that WoTC coast will provide much in the way of support it is very important that third party companies do so or it will become just another one shot supplement that is exciting at first but quickly loses steam because everyone forgets about it.

Look at past history There were 3 supplements that came out for 2nd edition that were aimed at very high(Epic) level play These being Dragon Kings(for Dark sun), Netheril(for FR), and High level campaigns none of these were supported at all.

I've now read the ELH twice and I think it is a very good book but it could be an incredible book if it got a little support,Especially adventures and crunch although a campaign setting aimed at epic levels would be wonderful.

 

[Arcane Runes Press]

I guess I'm missing something, what's wrong with that?

There's nothing wrong with it.

It's just another case of someone mistaking their opinion for objective fact.


Patrick Y.