Forked: Some rules clarification for my 3rd ed Warlock

[frankthedm]

http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-rules-discussion/272606-some-rules-clarification-my-3rd-ed-warlock.html
My first Warlock character is getting into higher levels and more advanced incantations, and I was hoping for a few rules clarifications for the decisions I can make now.

First, when deciding the DC for an Eldritch Blast's effects, is it based on the total level of the Blast or the effect that requires the save? For example, if I had Frightful Blast (2nd level,) and Eldritch Chain (4th,) would the DC for the fear effect be base 12 or base 14?

Second, what if both effects had the same save, like Eldritch Cone and Repelling Blast? Would there just be one save or two, and if two saves, do targets who make the save against the Cone effect (and don't simply evade it,) still have to make the second save?

Third, how does stacking metamagic spell-like abilities work? I assumed that you just added the level penalities together. For example, if I had Empower Spell-Like Ability (1/2 caster level -2,) and Quicken Spell-Like Ability (-4,) I couldn't use them both on the same blast unless I was a 14th level caster and only used a 1st level Eldritch Blast (14/2 = 7 - 2 - 4 = 1.) That seems reasonable, but I'm not sure if it's accurate.

And lastly, how can you Eldritch Blast when grappled? That actually came up last game. The DM allowed it, but we were up against a Bonedrinker AND a Boneclaw, so he might have just been lenient for our basic survival purposes.

"how can you Eldritch Blast when grappled?" You can't. Somatic components are part of all Warlock SLA's and there is no way to get rid of them to my knowledge.

Cast a Spell
You can attempt to cast a spell while grappling or even while pinned (see below), provided its casting time is no more than 1 standard action, it has no somatic component, and you have in hand any material components or focuses you might need. Any spell that requires precise and careful action is impossible to cast while grappling or being pinned. If the spell is one that you can cast while grappling, you must make a Concentration check (DC 20 + spell level) or lose the spell. You don’t have to make a successful grapple check to cast the spell.

 

[Corsair]

I constantly feel like WotC devs massively over anticipated the power some categories, primarily spontaneous casters and anything that could be used "at will."

Edit to add: Particularly bothersome is that Dimension Door, one of the best "get out of grapple" spells in a core game is verbal only. But because all warlock invocations have somatic components, so does Flee The Scene.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Edit to add: Particularly bothersome is that Dimension Door, one of the best "get out of grapple" spells in a core game is verbal only. But because all warlock invocations have somatic components, so does Flee The Scene.

I think that was just terrible oversight. I really think the intent was to let warlocks use Dim Door as other casters do -- escape from grapple and other bad situations 98% of the time, other stuff 2% of the time.

I don't like hte blanket "all invocations have somatic components" rule. I'd rather if it was based on the spell being mimicked if one is. For eldritch blast...you know what, in light of the Reserve feats basically letting any caster steal the warlock's schtick...and do it better since it's Su...I have no qualms at all with removing somatic components from EB.

 

[Dandu]

Wear a Ring of Freedom of Movement.

 

[LordVyreth]

Fun fact, though. Looking through the Complete Arcane, I don't see any point where the Eldtritch Blast is in fact called an invocation! The attachments are, sure, but it seems to be only listed as an ability, albeit a spell-like. I might be wrong, of course, and just missed it, but I didn't find anything during the fight. At the very least, there might be a bit of wiggle room that the DM decided to be merciful and use.

Anything suggestions about the DCs/metamagic? Also, do you think it would be particularly game-breaking to create new feats that are spell-like ability equivalents of other metamagic spell feats? I've been thinking of going that way once the Empower/Maximize/Quicken chain is done.

 

[LordVyreth]

Wait, nevermind. I was right about the book, but I re-checked the errata, and it clarified that Eldritch Blast is an invocation there.

 

[Corsair]

The warlock entry is a mess, generally speaking. For instance, the fact that all invocations (including EB) have somatic components is explained under armor proficiencies.

 

[Dandu]

This also means that Baleful Utterance and Word of Changing... have somatic components, but no verbal components.

 

[Falling Icicle]

I think that was just terrible oversight. I really think the intent was to let warlocks use Dim Door as other casters do -- escape from grapple and other bad situations 98% of the time, other stuff 2% of the time.

I don't like hte blanket "all invocations have somatic components" rule. I'd rather if it was based on the spell being mimicked if one is. For eldritch blast...you know what, in light of the Reserve feats basically letting any caster steal the warlock's schtick...and do it better since it's Su...I have no qualms at all with removing somatic components from EB.

While I agree that it would be nice if some of the invocations, most notably word of changing and baleful utterance, had V instead of S components, if warlocks used a V component for flee the scene they'd be effectively immune to grapples. A wizard can use dimension door to escape, yes, but he can only do so a certain number of times per day, while a warlock can flee the scene as often as he likes. Still, when choosing flee the scene is 1/12th of a warlock's entire spell arsenal, it's probably not a problem to let them use it as a get-out-of-grapple-free card.

 

[LordVyreth]

I see the point about the grappling rules, but believe me when I say that I intend to get my warlock involved in grappling as little as humanly possible. Even at the last game, I only got grappled because I "took one for the team" by blocking the path for even worse at grappling psion.

The issues with DCs and whatnot, though, could happen as early as two days from now, and I'm still not sure how to resolve them.