Forked Thread: Goodman IS going GSL!

[guivre]

I think you missed phloog's point. For all we know, Goodman might not get the implication, either (unless he's bringing a sell-out stock to GenCon or not branding these "OGL 4e" adventures as part of the same "product line".)

If he is, in fact, using the OGL, he has to pulp any unsold adventures when he puts out his GSL products in October if they are part of the same "game line" under the terms of the GSL.

No he doesn't. Take the time to actually read the GSL.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I wasn't trying to compare Adamant's total numbers with Goodman's total numbers. The point was in tems of reletive numbers to each companies own previous sales. I am not saying Goodman will have the same numbers as Adamant, but rather that half its previous buying base has not moved on to the new product and could therefore see sales half of what they were before.

Lots of people talking online does not translate into 50 percent of actual buyers. I think when we finally have any kind of sales figures to make a real estimation -- which might not happen until a year or two after Pathfinder is finally commercially released -- we're going to see it's nowhere near 50 percent (and Paizo certainly doesn't need 50 percent to be a big success).

Goodman is going with the safe bet. I've seen their 3.5 stuff in Barnes & Noble, and if they're going to be one of the few 3rd party publishers (at this point) with the Dungeons & Dragons logo on the front of their products in October, it'll work out even better for them.

It also doesn't hurt that, among gamers who go with 3rd party stuff, their products tend to be highly regarded and Dungeon Crawl Classics is a respected brand name all on its own.

My group is still 3.5 until the end of our current campaign (it should wrap up next spring), but if I go 4E, I will certainly be looking to Goodman for my pre-made adventure needs, just as I did with 3E.

 

[Psion]

No he doesn't. Take the time to actually read the GSL.

Rude much? I have read the GSL. They can't distribute it anymore, nor sell any more downloads. Per section 6.1.

 

[Ourph]

I have read the GSL. They can't distribute it anymore, nor sell any more downloads. Per section 6.1.

I don't know if that's true. Section 6.1 deals with updating existing products and what happens after an OGL product is converted to GSL compliance. It doesn't address a publisher having old products under the OGL and completely new products under the GSL in the same line.

So if all of Goodman's GSL adventures in the DCC line are completely new products, not updates of old adventures, it appears they can continue to sell their old OGL DCCs (and even make new OGL DCCs as long as they are different from the GSL DCCs being created). The restrictions in Section 6.1 only appear to kick in once you actually convert a specific product in a line between the OGL and the GSL.

 

[pemerton]

Ourph, once you publish a Conversion then you cannot continue to publish OGL products in the same line. And a Conversion is defined to include any product using the same product line trademark as any product published under the OGL with WoTC.

Assuming that DCC is a product line trademark, then the publication of any DCC under the GSL requires GG to cease publishing DCCs under the OGL.

At least, that's how it reads to me.

 

[2WS-Steve]

Rude much? I have read the GSL. They can't distribute it anymore, nor sell any more downloads. Per section 6.1.

They can still distribute any physical stock they have left in their warehouse. So I don't think there'd be any pulping required.

Electronic stock all has to go away immediately -- so I guess this means that Goodman Games isn't selling enough old PDFs to make that a big concern.

And, of course, WotC can change the agreement as it desires whenever a new Sith lord comes into power.

 

[guivre]

Rude much? I have read the GSL. They can't distribute it anymore, nor sell any more downloads. Per section 6.1.

Rude, no. Tired of un-informed commentary on the license, yes: if you're going to read it take the time to understand it. They can still sell remaining stock, claiming they have to "pulp" it is nonsense and denotes a severe misunderstanding of the license.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

Goodman is going with the safe bet. I've seen their 3.5 stuff in Barnes & Noble, and if they're going to be one of the few 3rd party publishers (at this point) with the Dungeons & Dragons logo on the front of their products in October, it'll work out even better for them.

The GSL does not allow the logo on the front. It only allows the logo on the back.

 

[hexgrid]

I wasn't trying to compare Adamant's total numbers with Goodman's total numbers. The point was in tems of reletive numbers to each companies own previous sales. I am not saying Goodman will have the same numbers as Adamant, but rather that half its previous buying base has not moved on to the new product and could therefore see sales half of what they were before.

In which case, they're still better off moving to 4e, because the half that moved to 4e has a greater need for new adventures than the half that stuck with 3e.

I'm an example of this- I'd long since stopped buying 3e DCCs because the last thing I needed was yet another 3e adventure. But now that I'm running 4e, I'm back in the market.

 

[thundershot]

Doesn't surprise me -- he's banking on the fact that the official D&D logo will translate into sales.

He might well be right -- Adamant, using existing copyright law (yes, we have a lawyer specializing in IP and copyright law) released the first third-party 4E-compatible adventure (see signature), and sales have been.... meh.

For all the controversy and discussion over GSL-vs-Copyright, it seems that consumers are still more likely to hold out for official stuff -- or at least it seems that way to me so far.

We kicked off our 4E campaign this week using SCOURGE OF THE RAT-MEN as the first adventure. (I had to print pages from the PDF since my print copy hasn't arrived yet) While I did replace the town with one of my own devising, so far everything's going great.

The only downside is that the hallways are narrow, and I'm running into a bottlenecking problem. It feels cramped...

So I hope you continue making Venture 4th adventures, because I'll be buying! Though in October, you might want to consider GSLing...

If they're not IDENTICAL to the ones in the Monster Manual, can you still use stat blocks under the GSL? I loved not having a Monster Manual open next to me while running this...



Chris