Forked Thread: Healing Surges: Let's see them in Action!

[Imaro]

You've quoted the line twice now in this thread, yet, you ignore the line before it. Why?



There, right there, it's flat out contradicting what you are claiming. It's a measure of how hard you are to kill. Yes, sometimes that means physical damage, and sometimes it doesn't.

How do these two lines contradict? One says, in broad terms (thus it comes first) that hit points measure how hard it is to kill you... the line I quoted then quantifies that broad statement into a more specific statement. In other words ...

how hard a character is to kill can be determined through their ability to take physical punishment and keep going and their ability to turn a serious blow into a less serious one... so where is the "contradiction"?

Are you trying to claim that a physical wound which you can actually look at, not a game mechanic, but, a real world event which is entirely quantifiable, is now somehow akin to abstract mechanics?

To me, this is the crux of this entire arguement. "Oh, but it's too abstract"? What? That's like saying Dada is more abstract that Picasso. Sorry, they're abstract. That's the whole point of abstract. It's kinda like pregnancy. Either you are or you're not. So, while a woman in her first trimester may be somewhat less visibly pregnant than one in her third, they are both simply pregnant.

And again you are choosing to ignore an obvious stick of measurement. There are two(possibly more) axis of abstraction in dealing with damage and healing in 4e... hit points (which are the same as previous editions) and healing surges which add another level of abstraction to both damage and healing... do you agree or not with this?

Again, if you insist on using narratives that lead to nonsensical answers, that's your own fault. Not the fault of the mechanics.

Or you give me nonsensical (in a logical sense) mechanics... that don't map to anything logical or consistent in the narrative or simulation sense and the narration becomes more and more absurd to account for the results.

But one thing you are correct about is that... it is my fault if I continue to play such a game.

 

[Imaro]

Let me ask you a question.

If I were to introduce a more serious version of my Alta Spelltzer + ritual above, that makes the extended rest and recovery of HP and surges a magical thing, would it make healing surges easier to digest for you?

And if I used it in my game, does that change anything (being the functional eqivalent of CLW wands?)

[EDIT: No sarcasm or ill will intended at all. I am seriously wondering if this sort of thing would make the HP/healing surge stuff more palatable]

Materially, for us, it really wouldn't change anything. The game would play the same way it does now, but now it would be easier to justify the healing because it was "magic".

Another quick question... Are you playing or DMing 4e, or are you planning to? Is there a houserule that you would accept that would make the game more enjoyable? I know that, for me, I've had to houserule something in every edition to get my screwy head to deal with stuff.

Well in all honesty our second try at 4e ended last weekend (I was the DM), my players choice to switch to something else. It's not that 4e was horrible...but we've played so many games that were better for our enjoyment that it seems a waste of time to continue with 4e... so we have tentatively decided to go with either Scion: Hero or Dark Ages: Inquisitor. I have ceased buying anything for 4e because my players as well as myself just aren't enjoying it... we don't find tactical miniature grid-based combat, all that fun in and of itself, the powers really don't do anything for us and it honestly feels like we've switched to a boardgame in the middle of our sessions when combat starts. This seems to be the focus of 4e on a much larger scale than 3e. I was hoping perhaps some innovative 3PP company would be able to produce (through supplements or campaign worlds) something that would make 4e click for me (as WotC just ain't doing it) but that really doesn't seem like a possibility at this point.

So I am taking a hiatus of sorts from D&D 4e for awhile. As far as houserules... I seriously don't know how to houserule enjoyment into a game, and I'm starting to feel like 4e just isn't our type of game. It's actually a little disappointing to me but we'll see. Yet my players enjoy 3.5 (and no, they aren't all spellcaster players... in fact we've only got one dedicated caster player).

 

[catsclaw227]

Well in all honesty our second try at 4e ended last weekend (I was the DM), my players choice to switch to something else. It's not that 4e was horrible...but we've played so many games that were better for our enjoyment that it seems a waste of time to continue with 4e... so we have tentatively decided to go with either Scion: Hero or Dark Ages: Inquisitor. I have ceased buying anything for 4e because my players as well as myself just aren't enjoying it... we don't find tactical miniature grid-based combat, all that fun in and of itself, the powers really don't do anything for us and it honestly feels like we've switched to a boardgame in the middle of our sessions when combat starts. This seems to be the focus of 4e on a much larger scale than 3e. I was hoping perhaps some innovative 3PP company would be able to produce (through supplements or campaign worlds) something that would make 4e click for me (as WotC just ain't doing it) but that really doesn't seem like a possibility at this point.

Well good for you that you are doing what is right for your group. No one wants to feel forced into playing a game that they don't like. My hat's off for at least giving it a go (twice!) and making an experienced and educated decision about it. There are some that like to bash without even trying.

Who knows? Maybe when (if) the revised GSL comes out, then Necro will build some alternate 4e rules that will better fit your style. Clark just recently stated that once this is available, he will consider doing just that.

So I am taking a hiatus of sorts from D&D 4e for awhile. As far as houserules... I seriously don't know how to houserule enjoyment into a game, and I'm starting to feel like 4e just isn't our type of game. It's actually a little disappointing to me but we'll see. Yet my players enjoy 3.5 (and no, they aren't all spellcaster players... in fact we've only got one dedicated caster player).

I feel ya. BTW, we didn't have any dedicated spell caster players either, but we did have a guy in 3.5 that was a CoDzilla master.