Forked Thread: Hybrid classes (4e playtest)

[Hereticus]

Forked from: Hybrid classes (4e playtest)

Fork this discussion to a different thread, please.

Thanks

I have never created a 4.0E multi-class character, nor are there in any of the games I've played in.

How does multi-classing work, and how will it be different from a hybrid-class?

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With multi-classing, how and when do yo make the chance from one class to another?

How does it deal with feats and powers?

 

[mach1.9pants]

Mmm I am not sure where you are coming from but I take it you do not have the 4E PHB so....

4E MC: take a feat and get a class skill trained and some sort of (limited) access to a class feature. For Paragon paths and some other things you are now considered a member of both classes.
You can then take a feat each to swap out a utility, ecnounter and daily power.
When you reach paragon level you can paragon multiclass instead of taking a paragon path. you can then swap an at will. At levels you get a paragon path utility, encounter and daily power you can instead take a lower level power from your multiclass...paragon MC is seen as a bit weak sauce.

4E Hybrid classing. Each class has a hybrid class set of stuff- basically the HP etc split in half, add them together.
*You only get any armour prof that BOTH hybrid classes have, but wep prof from both hybrid classes.
*You can choose 3 trained skills from both hybrid class lists (some classes get a couple of bonus trained skills-rogues- and can only take them from that hybrid classes list)
* You get a specified (sometimes weakened) class feature from both hybrid classes.
* You then choose powers from both classes, but you must balance if you can i.e if you have 2 encounter powers 1 from each, 3 enc pwrs 2 and 1, 4 enc pwrs 2 from each.
* There is also a (must have!) feat giving you full access to one classes feature that you don't already have. You are a member of both classes for all effects.

Make sense?

 

[Rechan]

4e Multi-Classing looks like this:

Half-Elf Bard.

Feat #1: Warrior of the Wild (ranger).

The Bard selects a skill from the ranger's skill list, and he can use Hunter's Quarry once per encounter.

Feat #3: Novice Power (Must be 4th level). The Bard can switch one of his Bard utility powers for a Ranger utility power.

Feat #5: Acolyte Power (Must be 8th level). The Bard can switch one of his Bard encounter powers for a Ranger encounter power.

Feat #6: Adept Power (Must be 10th leevel). The bard can switch one of his bard Daily powers for a Ranger Daily Power.

There is some stuff he can do at paragon level to multi-class further, including switching one of his Bard At-Will powers for a Ranger At-Will power. There are also other multi-class feats; they function the same as 'Warrior of the Wild', but instead grant access to another Ranger class feature (like wielding a one-handed weapon as an off-hand weapon).

The notion of Multi-Classing in 4e is more like dabbling. Additionally there are other options; the multi-class framework can get you access to things like being a Half-Vampire (the Dhampyr race, released in Dragon); using special weapons with powers attached (again, Dragon), or access to special powers (the Spellscarred multi-class, in the FRPG).

 

[Inyssius]

There is some stuff he can do at paragon level to multi-class further, including switching one of his Bard At-Will powers for a Ranger At-Will power.

To elaborate: you can opt to multiclass even further at paragon level instead of taking a Paragon Path.

• Where you would usually get a number of benefits at level 11, you can choose to replace one of your at-will powers with one from your multiclass;
• Where you would get a number of other benefits at level 11, you gain a 7th-level encounter power from your other class;
• Where you would get a paragon path utility power at level 12, you gain a 10th-level utility power from your other class; and
• Where you would get a paragon path daily power at level 20, you gain a 19th-level daily power from your other class.

There are also other multi-class feats; they function the same as 'Warrior of the Wild', but instead grant access to another Ranger class feature (like wielding a one-handed weapon as an off-hand weapon).

Right. You can also take these feats as well as Warrior of the Wild, to become even more like a ranger. Some feats require you to be paragon multiclassing into a specific classm and they grant more powerful class features.

The notion of Multi-Classing in 4e is more like dabbling.

I would hardly call it "dabbling"; if you take all of the options, your bard can be almost half ranger. A lot of people underestimate it, but that is a lot of ranger.

 

[Rechan]

To elaborate: you can opt to multiclass even further at paragon level instead of taking a Paragon Path.

Hm. WHat about the 16th level Encounter power you usually get from a Paragon path?

I would hardly call it "dabbling"; if you take all of the options, your bard can be almost half ranger. A lot of people underestimate it, but that is a lot of ranger.

True; the dabbling notion was before the various splatbooks came out with more multi-class feats.

 

[Cadfan]

Its also worth noting that taking a multiclass feat qualifies you for paragon paths designed for your multiclass. These paragon paths generally grant abilities much like class abilities which you can then access.

As a whole, if you select a paragon path and epic destiny from the class you've multi-ed into, you get about a 50/50 mix.

Hybrid classes also create a 50/50 mix, but they do it from level 1 instead of over time, and they let you mix class abilities and at will powers, which is difficult or impossible with multiclassing.

 

[Inyssius]

Hm. WHat about the 16th level Encounter power you usually get from a Paragon path?

Apparently, paragon multiclassers don't get a 16th-level benefit. Huh.

(Although, for strict accuracy, it's usually a situational benefit instead of a per-encounter ability--"when you're bloodied", "when you make an attack vs. Will", "when you push an enemy", et cetera.)

 

[Hereticus]

Mmm I am not sure where you are coming from but I take it you do not have the 4E PHB so....

I've had it for quite a while and have searched for multi-class info. What page is that from?

4E MC: take a feat and get a class skill trained and some sort of (limited) access to a class feature. For Paragon paths and some other things you are now considered a member of both classes.
You can then take a feat each to swap out a utility, encounter and daily power.
When you reach paragon level you can paragon multiclass instead of taking a paragon path. you can then swap an at will. At levels you get a paragon path utility, encounter and daily power you can instead take a lower level power from your multiclass...paragon MC is seen as a bit weak sauce.

It sounds to me like there is no down side to multi-classing, and all the advantages in the world.

How does a hero tier multi-class?

Can the player just declare that they're multi-classing and gain access to new feats and powers?

How many classes can I multi-class in?

 

[Belphanior]

It sounds to me like there is no down side to multi-classing, and all the advantages in the world.

Uh, no. You must spend a feat to multiclass, which gives you one skill and one diluted power. This is generally considered one of the more useful ways to spend a feat. However, it's just dabbling at this level. The fighter is not suddenly a fantastic spellcaster, he just has the Arcana skill and can do magic missile once per fight.

Furthering your dabbling requires more and more feats, which quite frankly you probably can spend on better things. Multiclassing in 4e is done either for a quick dabble, or mostly for the RP factor.

How does a hero tier multi-class?

Spending the feat.

Can the player just declare that they're multi-classing and gain access to new feats and powers?

Once they've spent the feat, they've gained access to get other feats and powers... which usually require spending even more feats to meet all the prerequisites.

How many classes can I multi-class in?

One, unless you're a bard.

 

[Jack99]

I've had it for quite a while and have searched for multi-class info. What page is that from?



It sounds to me like there is no down side to multi-classing, and all the advantages in the world.

How does a hero tier multi-class?

Can the player just declare that they're multi-classing and gain access to new feats and powers?

How many classes can I multi-class in?

Having the book is not enough, you actually have to read it in order to get the information inside it

Multiclass feats are in the feats chapter, around page 208 iirc.

You have to spend feats in order to multiclass, it's not free.

Ie, you spend one feat in order to multiclass (get class at-will as encounter or small class feature + skill bonus) and then afterwards, you spend feats on being able to grab a power from your new class instead of one from your original class.

Unless you are a bard, you can only multi-class in one class.

EDIT: Argh, ninja'ed by a tulip!