Forked Thread: Once per day non-magical effects destroy suspension of disbelief

[xechnao]

It's not like anyone has died in boxing, Muay Thai or MMA before

People get killed in sports. But they do not get killed because they wanted to kill each other and their adversary won the contest.

Totally unrealistic! Complete BS! I'm sure you could take any one of these guys in the street. (Puts on his movie voice) Where there's no rules except the rules of survival

From a real fight's standpoint these fights are not realistic. I bet if you asked your heroes there to confront with some schizophrenic that wanted to kill them they would piss their pants.

 

[AtomicPope]

Re: mmu
Kerr was an impressive striker and Division I wrestler. He trained at BHJJ when it was a top dojo for MMA champions. There were a number of world class strikers and grapplers present at BHJJ at the time. Mark Kerr has impressive takedowns and I'm lucky to have the opportunity to train with a Division I wrestler.

And while I understand that name dropping won't make me "right", it does mean I'm informed. I can provide a plethora of examples to support my position because I am informed. Ever learn a knee bar from Taktarov? How about leg kicks from Rutten? I'm sure nobody else here has. This isn't the kind of forum for MMA. Where a person gets their information from is important. If someone says, "I received my degree from McUniversity" their credentials would be questionable. So don't deride my history and personal attacks. It's uncalled for. And it's a diversion from credentials.

I've trained with people that possess a few very effective skills that were able to lauch them to success, Liddell is one such person. Liddell is the poster boy for what I'm talking about. He has a reliable Daily punch that he throws and unless it lands he loses. That's a fighter who has access to few powers. And that's exactly what this discussion is about. Fighters, their powers, and how their powers fit into the 4e framework.

 

[xechnao]

That's a fighter who has access to few powers. And that's exactly what this discussion is about. Fighters, their powers, and how their powers fit into the 4e framework.

I am not questioning your knowledge of ring skills. I am questioning the consideration of ring skills as examples of a real life and death situation.

 

[LostSoul]

He can try. He just will never succeed.

I still contend that it doesn't make much in-game sense. Thus the suspension of disbelief issue.

Why does your suspension of disbelief require a chance that it will succeed more often? Isn't 1/day enough for something that's hard to pull off?

If you have a problem with your PC knowing that he can execute that maneuver if he rests, just say that your PC doesn't know that. (Describe at-will attacks as failed attempts to use the daily power.) What your PC knows and what he doesn't know are up to you.

 

[The Highway Man]

I bet if you asked your heroes there to confront with some schizophrenic that wanted to kill them they would piss their pants.

That's a ridiculous statement. Anybody that isn't properly trained to take that kind of punch/kick will almost certainly DIE or end up crippled in a real life brawl with a guy like this. There's a reason why those guys are usually prohibited (in France at the very least) to use their techniques if attacked by someone else in RL - because that would constitute the use of an "overpowered weapon" in a case of legitimate defense, and would thus equate to Murder 2.

 

[xechnao]

That's a ridiculous statement. Anybody that isn't properly trained to take that kind of punch/kick will almost certainly DIE in a real life brawl with a guy like this.

Ok, so saying that I cannot believe that these guys due to their career will have no serious problem, they will not be in serious trouble in anything like this you think is ridiculous. How can you be so sure? Have you seen something similar happen? From what I understand if some mad guy gets on a frenzy he will probably not let anybody a chance to punch him or kick him as the ring rules allow. I think that mad guys can be more disturbing and energetic than what people could normally imagine.

There's a reason why those guys are usually prohibited (in France) to use their techniques if attacked in RL - because that would constitute the use of an "overpowered weapon" in a case of legitimate defense, and would thus equate to Murder 2.

Huh?

Whatever...

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

These fights are not real. These guys do not fight for their lives or something -there is no survival-killer instinct there.

Then what do you want to base your knowledge on? How many real-world fights to the death can we use as examples? We only have the "sport fights" to compare to. There are not many role-players that regularly fight people in melee combat to the death. (Not even the Soldiers among us). And I am not sure we would want them to talk about this, either. It feels inappropriate...

So, in the absence of real-world examples we could check our "combat model", what are we going to do? The only basis we have now is: "Does the game system work?" And that it does. But it won't help anyone keeping is disbelief suspenders on.

 

[The Highway Man]

xechnao, you are the one twisting the argument here. You said that "I bet if you asked your heroes there to confront with some schizophrenic that wanted to kill them they would piss their pants."

THIS is the comment that is ridiculous. I never said anything about them not ever getting in trouble or anything of the sort.

As for your assessment of a lunatic vs. a professional fighter, there are so many outside circumstances that will affect the outcome of such a situation that it is pointless to come up with "What If" scenarios.

All I'm saying here is that your argument that "this is just fighting in a ring and these guys would be sissies in a real fight in a street" is bogus. I just came up with a fact: that in some European countries, the use of martial arts by champions in "real life" situation would be considered as unpremeditated murder because they used force to their "unfair advantage", even if they were the ones attacked.

What fact can you bring to argue that excellent fighters in a ring would consistently suck in real life fights or psychologically break down under the pressure? That's just silly talk so far, to me.

 

[Steely Dan]

Of course, none of those limited 3E examples were actually 1/day.

1/day is more jarring than several-times-per-day.
More such abilities are more jarring than very few such abilities.

Too little, too late – we've already covered this, aside from the fact that you are cutting the bread pretty thin there.

 

[xechnao]

We only have the "sport fights" to compare to.

And I do not think it is a valid comparison. Really, at all. Even if currently you can't find any real life examples.