Forked Thread: What is the difference between Science Fiction and Fantasy?

[pawsplay]

The only real difference is where they shelve the books. While defining genres can be useful, pretending there is a basic philosophic difference between the two is an exercise in self-delusion. To be perfectly pedantic, all science-fiction is a sub-genre of fantasy. In fact, all fiction contains elements of fantasy.

 

[Desdichado]

The only real difference is where they shelve the books.

Actually, not even that. I can't remember ever being inside a bookstore or library either one that didn't shelve fantasy and science fiction intermingled.

While defining genres can be useful, pretending there is a basic philosophic difference between the two is an exercise in self-delusion.

I don't think anyone's talking about "basic philosophic difference." This is more about esoteric nitpicking.

Which, granted, prompted my first reply. Lately, although I recognize the distinctions between the various subgenres, I tend to gloss over them and see the entire "big genre" as one thing.

 

[pawsplay]

"SF looks forward, fantasy to the past" is the kind of premise I'm talking about. It's glib, but it doesn't hold up to the gentlest inspection.

 

[Umbran]

Literature discussion here is usually limited to the areas of the fantasy genre that people who grew up reading Howard, Moorcock, Martin, and Jordan believe D&D best emulate.

I thik you are over-generalizing. Martin's fame around here is for a series that's just a touch over one decade old - not something many of us "grew up" in. I didnt' read any of the others before I was in my 20s, so I didn't grow up with them, either.

And still, it seems pretty clear to me that epic fantasy is the thing that D&D best emulates. YMMV, I suppose. But I'm pretty sure it doesn't come close to, say, China Miéville, or Charles de Lint, or Jim Butcher's Dresden Files work.

I hardly find it surprising that the game best emulates that literature that the original authors claimed as their inspirations.

 

[Andor]

Something a lot of people are missing. Laser do not make something Science Fiction, Spells do not make them fantasy.

Don't confuse the trappings of the genre with the genre itself.

The Randall Garett stories are detective stories, not fantasies even if they take place in a world with magic. A Civil Campaign is a romance/comedy of manners even though it's set on another planet in the future and the hero has a stunner.

Star Wars is a fantasy/hero's journey story set with the trappings of SF. Waldo is a science fiction story about a scientist learning magic.

 

[Cadfan]

And still, it seems pretty clear to me that epic fantasy is the thing that D&D best emulates. YMMV, I suppose. But I'm pretty sure it doesn't come close to, say, China Miéville, or Charles de Lint, or Jim Butcher's Dresden Files work.

Perhaps, but the New Weird aren't the only types of fantasy fiction out there. Just as a start, there's a whole world of what has been poorly named "romantic fantasy," but which really means "epic fantasy except its not a boy's club." Much of Mercedes Lackey's writing practically IS a D&D campaign, on text. Can you imagine the pitch to the publisher?

"Basically, there's these people called Heralds, and they're sort of like paladin who go out, travel around the countryside, and solve problems. Some have magic powers, some are fearsome warriors. They come together at times of crisis and war. Oh, and they also have celestial horses that can talk."

Or the pitch for her mercenary pair:

"One woman is the last of her tribe and the most fearsome warrior of the plains, and the other is the strongest mage alive and the owner of a sentient sword. Together, they fight crime."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romantic_fantasy

 

[hamishspence]

views on that sort of fantasy

I personally liked the Lackey books, though, like many authors, some of them tended to get a bit similar.

 

[Desdichado]

Something a lot of people are missing. Laser do not make something Science Fiction, Spells do not make them fantasy.

Don't confuse the trappings of the genre with the genre itself.

At some point, at least from a marketing standpoint (which decides which publishers will epxress interest in publishing the book and where it will sit in the bookstore and what it will be called), the trappings are the genre.

Sure, we could get academic and debate more esoteric definitions, with some validity, but at the end of the day, if a story has lasers, much more likely than not, it is science fiction. If it has spells, much more likely than not, it is fantasy.

 

[Umbran]

Don't confuse the trappings of the genre with the genre itself.

While I said above that Firefly was sci-fi with Western elements, in actuality, genre is not exclusive. So...

A Civil Campaign is a romance/comedy of manners even though it's set on another planet in the future and the hero has a stunner.

A Civil Campaign is a romance/comedy of manners and science fiction. And I wouldn't get upset if someone claimed that Firefly was a Western and Sci Fi at the same time.

It's all in the trope. If you use enough tropes from two genres, you're both - a dessert topping *and* a floor wax!

 

[hamishspence]

and if it has both?

Star wars, 40K, and several other settings combine magic (sometimes as "psi" sometimes not) and lasers. Dune, when you throw in the Bene Gesserit "Witches" who evolved from the "sorceresses" is another candidate.